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Rarely used players
Posted by: mini_andy (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 00:09

Following in on from posting about Jake Kirby, it got me thinking about the players we have (currently) who have contributed nothing or very little to the first team this season. (I’m excluding youth players)

Like Pilling
Jay McEveley
James Wallace
Jake Kirby
Jack Dunn
Elliot Rokka
Larnell Cole
Devarn Green
Andy Mangan
George Waring
James Alabi

How much do we reckon that list is costing us?

(I had also forgotten about 3 of the players!)

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: nlrover (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 07:29

I'd guess at about £7k - £8k per week, or £350k - £400k over the season. Would be wise to lose the majority and replace with proven quality that can contribute positively and regularly to the first team.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: coltran (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 13:16

Says it all about our poor player recruitment over the past few seasons.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: HardlyYardley (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 13:36

Apart from Wallace and Kirby who, along with Tollitt, were long-term injured and on contracts, I agree. The summer was really poor for us. Our best new player was Norburn who came from Macclesfield who seem to be managing okay without him just as Forest Green also managed okay after Norwood came to us. Wrexham remain on a par with us too. We're a just above average side in this division, but not good enough to be champions as we can't beat the best teams.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: DevonExile (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 21:17

All but two have been MM signings.Few are serious contenders for a first team place and it does not help a team when there is not serious competition for places.From that list how many should be here next season?

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: mini_andy (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 21:39

I would get rid of all of them. Non players should be pushing for a starting place, realistically, I don’t think any of these are.

My fag packet calculation is £8.5k a week, so £442k per year 😲

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: Cybertron (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 22:21

Quote:
mini_andy
I would get rid of all of them. Non players should be pushing for a starting place, realistically, I don’t think any of these are.
My fag packet calculation is £8.5k a week, so £442k per year 😲
I don't think a wholesale clearout is necessary, there are quite a few on that list though that will be surplus to requirements.
Jay McEveley
Jack Dunn
Elliot Rokka
Andy Mangan
James Alabi

could all go...the following have not really been given a chance this season but have a good record and could come back and play well

James Wallace
Jake Kirby

The last group

Luke Pilling
Larnell Cole
Devarn Green
George Waring

have not really been given much of a look in, Cole has played quite well when he was, the others probably deserve a chance, for what its worth Green has been doing well at Warrington.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: mini_andy (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 22:28

I worry about Larnell Coles fitness though. He’s been injured a lot since signing for us. The same goes for Kirby and Wallace

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: Cybertron (IP Logged)
Date: 21 February, 2018 23:10

Quote:
mini_andy
I worry about Larnell Coles fitness though. He’s been injured a lot since signing for us. The same goes for Kirby and Wallace
Kirby had a broken leg (double fracture) that is always going to be a difficult one to come back from, the knee injury is just unfortunate. Cole had been laid off for a long period but until his hamstring injury was playing well...Wallace, very talented, but his injury history is well know and will always be a high risk option.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: DevonExile (IP Logged)
Date: 22 February, 2018 12:05

IT would be an act of charitable folly to offer Wallace another contract

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: HardlyYardley (IP Logged)
Date: 22 February, 2018 13:00

Quote:
DevonExile
IT would be an act of charitable folly to offer Wallace another contract
Wallace is our best player. I think the question of another contract should be decided on the medical advice and his wage demands. For example, if he were willing to do another season on a pay-per-play type contract and the medical outlook was favourable, why on earth wouldn't we want him? It's starting to look like a gamble that hasn't paid off this season, (though if - big if - we get to Wembley and he's match fit, wouldn't you want Wallace in the team?) but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a sensible gamble and doesn't necessarily mean that another gamble wouldn't be worth taking. The possible benefits are obvious and the possible downside is obvious - so why not just decide on the facts?

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: Old Rover (IP Logged)
Date: 22 February, 2018 19:12

Since leaving us in 2014 Wallace has only played 31 game's. ( if my research is right ). Bringing him back was a gamble that has'nt paid off.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: DevonExile (IP Logged)
Date: 22 February, 2018 19:25

Quote:
Old Rover
Since leaving us in 2014 Wallace has only played 31 game's. ( if my research is right ). Bringing him back was a gamble that has'nt paid off.

His time on the pitch for us has been so low that it has to be seen as a failed gamble to extend the experience would be a reckless gamble.Even when playing his contribution can be exaggerated.Towards the end of last season he showed reasonable form but before that he often was off the pace of the game.
I feel sorry for Wallace but I cannot see the value of keeping a player for an occasional cameo performance.As for being steered by medical opinion would that be the same medical opinion that justified the offer of an 18 month contract

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: HardlyYardley (IP Logged)
Date: 22 February, 2018 19:44

Quote:
DevonExile
Quote:
Old Rover
Since leaving us in 2014 Wallace has only played 31 game's. ( if my research is right ). Bringing him back was a gamble that has'nt paid off.

His time on the pitch for us has been so low that it has to be seen as a failed gamble to extend the experience would be a reckless gamble.Even when playing his contribution can be exaggerated.Towards the end of last season he showed reasonable form but before that he often was off the pace of the game.
I feel sorry for Wallace but I cannot see the value of keeping a player for an occasional cameo performance.As for being steered by medical opinion would that be the same medical opinion that justified the offer of an 18 month contract

My understanding (from what MM has said) is that Wallace's injuries aren't connected. Doctors are able to see if injuries have healed and if there are remaining weaknesses,but they aren't able to predict the future. As far as I know, no doctor has predicted a bad tackle, though one could occur to any player in any game. We have no idea what Wallace's wages are or what he would ask in the future. He will be very sharply aware of his lack of apearances as will MM. If he were to sign on a pay-per-play basis, what would be the objection?

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: TranmereFan (IP Logged)
Date: 22 February, 2018 23:15

Quote:
HardlyYardley
Quote:
DevonExile
IT would be an act of charitable folly to offer Wallace another contract
Wallace is our best player. I think the question of another contract should be decided on the medical advice and his wage demands. For example, if he were willing to do another season on a pay-per-play type contract and the medical outlook was favourable, why on earth wouldn't we want him? It's starting to look like a gamble that hasn't paid off this season, (though if - big if - we get to Wembley and he's match fit, wouldn't you want Wallace in the team?) but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a sensible gamble and doesn't necessarily mean that another gamble wouldn't be worth taking. The possible benefits are obvious and the possible downside is obvious - so why not just decide on the facts?

Best player????? Do we even remember how he plays??? Unsure about that one. He was brilliant in his day, unfortunately he’s now as fragile as the egg that sat on the wall. I’ve completely forgotten what he offers to the team other than a wage bill that could be replaced with 2 others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/02/2018 23:35 by TranmereFan.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: HardlyYardley (IP Logged)
Date: 23 February, 2018 13:18

I would suppose that MM has a reasonably clear idea of what Wallace could still offer in the football sense. I would suppose MM has a reasonably clear idea of the medical reports on Wallace's past injuries, present condition and any obvious tendencies towards future physical problems. I would suppose that MM know quite precisely the terms of Wallace's present contract and would know precisely the terms of any possible future contract. I have an opinion on the first point but no real knowledge of the second or third points. I would guess that none of us know any more than that.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: DevonExile (IP Logged)
Date: 23 February, 2018 19:08

There were many on this board that questioned the signing of Wallace as over the last 5 years he has faced a succession of injuries with consecutive full games a rarity.That pattern has continued here and even before he was offered his eighteen month contract he had games where he came off because of niggles,
It is a record that does not really need a medical opinion to come to the conclusion that it now seems the pattern of a vulnerable body. It is true that we do not know how much he is paid but after the initial period it is unlikely to have been a play as you play contract.Could he really afford more than a year with barely no pay.
His contribution even when fit is overstated by some and yes any player can suffer a bad injury.That is quite different from a serial tendency to breakdown It is exactly because at any point a club might have unforeseen injuries that we cannot afford to carry one who on the basis of probability is more likely to be unfit than available to play

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: HardlyYardley (IP Logged)
Date: 23 February, 2018 19:53

My point is simply that, although it is looking like a gamble which hasn't paid off, that doesn't make it an irrational gamble as we don't know the salient facts and the balance beween them. If Wallace wants to play on next season and we want him to play for us, it seems highly unlikely that his lack of past appearances wouldn't be a major factor in negotiating any new contract. It's also the case that we can't afford to keep signing players we don't use for other reasons. On a purely human level (and I'm sure everyone will agree with this) Wallace - and Tollitt and Kirby and now Gumbs - have suffered serious injuries while playing (or training) with us and I wish them all well.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: TranmereFan (IP Logged)
Date: 23 February, 2018 23:52

Without any doubt Wallace will not be a Tranmere player next season if he doesn’t shake off this injury. I suspect he has some sort of deal and is paid well, he is probably a good guy to have on the training pitch, which is probably why he’s been kept on too, hence he may well turn into a coach.

Re: Rarely used players
Posted by: ADD (IP Logged)
Date: 24 February, 2018 09:14

Quote:
HardlyYardley
My point is simply that, although it is looking like a gamble which hasn't paid off, that doesn't make it an irrational gamble as we don't know the salient facts and the balance beween them. If Wallace wants to play on next season and we want him to play for us, it seems highly unlikely that his lack of past appearances wouldn't be a major factor in negotiating any new contract. It's also the case that we can't afford to keep signing players we don't use for other reasons. On a purely human level (and I'm sure everyone will agree with this) Wallace - and Tollitt and Kirby and now Gumbs - have suffered serious injuries while playing (or training) with us and I wish them all well.
With only 11 games to go and him maybe having finally joined back into training this week (or not) we can for sure say that the gamble has not paid off given he is at least a month away from fitness and surely more than that from full match fitness (as we have seen with Tollitt).
In any event I am sure we will not contemplate giving him a new contract. Fair enough if nobody else takes him on and he wants to play under a pay as you play contract that would be different but I am not holding my breath.

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