Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?


By Merlion
February 1 2022

Cryuffian Football is briefly summarised as:

*The team is still flat and inconsistency. Once Arteta gets the team to absorb and understand his need for rapid passing consistently, the team will take-off rapidly like a rising exponential curve, well that’s the plan.

Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Arsenal Times (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2022 15:20

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:08:07:45:03 by Padre Pio.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: CazOnARola (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2022 19:00

We saw a hint of this against Norwich.

Tomiyasu, Xhaka and Partey play a big part in the quick exchanges. Lets see when can we get our best 11 together again.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2022 19:23

Interesting article Merl, and clearly applies to what happened against Burnley. As your footnote states flat describes it, but what is the solution?
You could coach Nik Bendtner for 20 years and he will never become Bergkamp. It is a problem making bricks without straw.
Wenger didnt teach his teams how to defend they already knew and if they didnt Adams and the guys taught them. He didnt teach Bergkamp how to use space, the guy already knew. Freddy already knew how to arrive blindside and have off ball running skills.

So the success of tactics depend on the quality of the players, the experience of the players and even then it is complicated by the fact that the other team has 11 men. So even Wenger teams had blank days away at Bolton, and even at Burnley. Wenger would complain that teams had played anti football against him, true they did but thats their choice. You cant tell the opposition what tactics to use. Arsenal are not the only team to play square sterile football from the back, its the new fashion, it doesnt make it ok.
Great teams have great players, how many of those do we have? Arteta will either need to discover some great players on the cheap as Wenger did (most unlikely) or come up with some new tactics that work and can be drilled in, succeeding against 11 men whatever they do.
Like the Greeks winning the Euros etc (hopefully not like that). Alternatively the club spends out -, not that likely either.
Maybe a greater manager can succeed , although Benitez failed at Everton and Ranieri at Watford, surely they are not dumfecks?
I suppose Arteta's idea is that he will have homegrown players become high quality first teamers, good luck with that (Ferguson proabably the first and last to succeed with that), it didnt work for Wenger.Project youth died with the signing of marquee players or skillfull players on the cheap because they were troublemakers.
Any solution? I cant think of one, apart from patience and like Mr Micawber hope something turns up.

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: CazOnARola (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2022 02:27

Padre I disagree..RVP was @#$%& positionally as a 9. Wenger sacrificed so much of the season just converting him.

Giroud could not dribble more than a yard when he joined, but the team he left he could also do it for 3 yardssmiling smiley

There are several examples, but wenger has improved players positionally, confidence wise or even goal scoring wise many times.

But it will needs a min threshold of talent. Pre 2015 Wenger was a God at improving players that had any assemblance of talent. Unless he didn't like them out course. Then he would throw them out like Campbell, Park, etc

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2022 08:56

Yes of course you can improve players, and Wenger did, but you still cant polish a turd, not even Wenger. But I dont think there are many players at this club at the moment that are hiding great skills and just need a magicians wand to bring this out.
I think you missed the main point of the post, it wasnt a criticism of who can coach or cant, it is asking do we really have the quality at the club required?

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: CazOnARola (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2022 09:40

Arteta has missed a great trick last year with Martinelli. Laca should not be playing CF for us. It should be Martinelli.

And Wenger would have definitely made better user of Pepe s shooting skills or ESRs off the ball running.
Infact Arteta stumbled onto ESR by accident post his love affair with Willian.

Arteta definitely has a lot more pbms coaching offensive players. His strength his position play and defensive organization.
So while in agree this squad does not have a lot of quality, Arteta doesn't maximize the potential of each player.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2022 09:45

Personally I don't think Martinelli is anywhere near good enough to play as a C/Forward yet.

"๐—œ๐—ณ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ณ๐—ถ๐—ฟ๐˜€๐˜ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ณ๐—ถ๐—ฟ๐˜€๐˜. ๐—œ๐—ณ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐˜€๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐—ผ๐—ป๐—ฑ, ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ป๐—ผ๐˜๐—ต๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ด."

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: CazOnARola (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2022 10:00

Quote:
Boston Gooner
Personally I don't think Martinelli is anywhere near good enough to play as a C/Forward yet.
Well that's where he first bring through and he turned his marker and ran at them as well and not just kept dropping deep.

In terms of quickness of feet to get away, he got past Van Dijk in the Liverpool game and almost got his shot away.

Lacazette doesn't score many goals and his passing accuracy isn't that great either.

I'm sure he can press and defend in an even more intense manner than Lacazette.

Funny thing is, Arteta does play him like a striker. A striker in his system, replacing Auba.

In Arteta s world, the center forward is just a false 9 to suck it the defense and didn't need to score goals. A bit like firminho.

But he is missing a trick. Look at Jota, he is able to do both . Link up with Mane/Salah as well as score more than firminho.

That's what Martinelli can do.

Lacazette has 3 goals and 3 assists in 16 matches. Martinelli has 4 goals and 2 assists in 14.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Jonny Kipper (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2022 12:12

Quote:
Padre Pio
Yes of course you can improve players, and Wenger did, but you still cant polish a turd, not even Wenger. But I dont think there are many players at this club at the moment that are hiding great skills and just need a magicians wand to bring this out

I think every single attacking player we have would be better under Wenger quite honestly. Especially Pepe because his problem is confidence - not ability - and so many of Wenger's former players all say the same thing, that he made them confident.

That's why people like Alex Hleb were at Birmingham City within three years of leaving Arsenal.

Wenger helped a lot of players unlock the best version of themselves. Someone will bring up Gnabry but for every one of him there's a dozen more who left Arsenal as a big player and went downhill from there.

I've no doubt that Martinelli, Pepe, Smith Rowe, Saka and Odegaard would be far more dangerous players under Wenger.

He knows ball. Arteta is too rough around the edges but honestly, I don't think he'll ever be a great manager. It's the Arteta show at Arsenal and everyone else is just a supporting character.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2022 12:34

Straight in as expected with your Wengerism.
Get over him.

Let's face it we are never going to get a manager that you like.

"๐—œ๐—ณ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ณ๐—ถ๐—ฟ๐˜€๐˜ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ณ๐—ถ๐—ฟ๐˜€๐˜. ๐—œ๐—ณ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐˜€๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐—ผ๐—ป๐—ฑ, ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ป๐—ผ๐˜๐—ต๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ด."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:02:12:36:55 by Boston Gooner.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: CazOnARola (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2022 16:43

Quote:
Shane
Quote:
Padre Pio
Yes of course you can improve players, and Wenger did, but you still cant polish a turd, not even Wenger. But I dont think there are many players at this club at the moment that are hiding great skills and just need a magicians wand to bring this out

I think every single attacking player we have would be better under Wenger quite honestly. Especially Pepe because his problem is confidence - not ability - and so many of Wenger's former players all say the same thing, that he made them confident.

That's why people like Alex Hleb were at Birmingham City within three years of leaving Arsenal.

Wenger helped a lot of players unlock the best version of themselves. Someone will bring up Gnabry but for every one of him there's a dozen more who left Arsenal as a big player and went downhill from there.

I've no doubt that Martinelli, Pepe, Smith Rowe, Saka and Odegaard would be far more dangerous players under Wenger.

He knows ball. Arteta is too rough around the edges but honestly, I don't think he'll ever be a great manager. It's the Arteta show at Arsenal and everyone else is just a supporting character.
This isn't even debatable considering the scoring record of his favs like cesc ,rvp, adebayor, etc before Wenger moved them around positionally.

He didnt much care about the defense Midfielders, but there is no denying Artetas lack of ideas offensively and his in game management when things don't go right.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/02/2022 10:44

Quote:
CazOnARola
Padre I disagree..RVP was @#$%& positionally as a 9. Wenger sacrificed so much of the season just converting him.
Giroud could not dribble more than a yard when he joined, but the team he left he could also do it for 3 yardssmiling smiley

There are several examples, but wenger has improved players positionally, confidence wise or even goal scoring wise many times.

But it will needs a min threshold of talent. Pre 2015 Wenger was a God at improving players that had any assemblance of talent. Unless he didn't like them out course. Then he would throw them out like Campbell, Park, etc

Caz, my intent is to point out that after 2 years, the process is still on-going to coach the team to execute rapid passing instead of every now and them regress to slow build-up with U-movements either to build from the back and U-movements around the box trying to break through low block.

Glimpses of green shoots against Everton, ManU, Liverpool 1st Leg Carabao Cup and of course, against Man City.

Arteta had completed the Phase 1 "Expected Passing" with the team. Plus with the latest culling, Arteta cannot complained he is not having the players he wanted (which he had coached most of them them for more than 2 years), Dubai Warm Weather Training is a blessing in disguise for him to get his acts together to work on rapid passing, better communication to play one-two to break into low block and better communication between Forward Line and Midfield.

I believe that Against Wolves, he will play 4-2-3-1 with Martinelli leads the line, with ESR (or Pepe) on left flank, but interchanging with Martinelli and one of them functions as the False 9 to break into the box from deep, and from left flank.

Xhaka?
We should realise that he has plenty of experience playing in Bundesliga against fast transition and fast counter-attacking teams, which are still the norm in Bundesliga. All teams play direct football with fast counter-attacking plays.
That is why Wenger, and Arteta too, value him highly where he protects the left flank and middle whenever a CB is caught out of position.

Arteta knew his issues with Xhaka. And he just has to grin and bear it, take it on the chin till he has a solution in summer transfer window. Alternatively, He is coaching Lokonga, Azeez, Patino and even ESR to fill the void left by Xhaka should he is sold in the summer.

Anyway, Arteta's priority is prepare existing squad, and buy new players, to finally play 4-3-3 in 2022/23 season.
Guess the next 17 games is the final semester for the squad to graduate to play 4-3-3 with a striker or a False 9 next season.

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/02/2022 03:50

Quote:
Padre Pio
So the success of tactics depend on the quality of the players, the experience of the players and even then it is complicated by the fact that the other team has 11 men. So even Wenger teams had blank days away at Bolton, and even at Burnley. Wenger would complain that teams had played anti football against him, true they did but thats their choice. You cant tell the opposition what tactics to use. Arsenal are not the only team to play square sterile football from the back, its the new fashion, it doesnt make it ok.
Great teams have great players, how many of those do we have? Arteta will either need to discover some great players on the cheap as Wenger did (most unlikely) or come up with some new tactics that work and can be drilled in, succeeding against 11 men whatever they do. up.

"I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiquitaca. Itโ€™s so much rubbish and has no purpose. You have to pass the ball with a clear intention, with the aim of making it into the oppositionsโ€™ goal. Itโ€™s not about passing for the sake of it." Pep Guardiola

That was exactly what his team was doing against Tiny Totts today.
as the commentator said:
"90% possession so what?
Tiny Totts took 3 incisive passes to score a goal.
Man City took 36 passes before shooting at goal"

The game against Brentford was poor with the manager still unable to coach his team to pass incisively into the box.

All the slow-pace passing around the box, without those rapid passing by Man City, shifting flank to flank to create 1-on-1 opportunity when overloading one flank.
It was so easy for Brentford to setup to defence against our slow passing and missing final balls into the box.
All final passes executed will predictable and so easily anticipated, intercepted or blocked.

During 1st half, we have 16 shots at goal but only 2 on targets.

Laca?
Static like a thick plank planted in the box acting as "ricochet plank" to ping-pong balls around the box. There is no guile in him to create a split second of clear shooting opportunity to shoot at goal.

Odegaard?
Eye candy with short passes and reverse passes to the flank but his passes have no impact into the box to create clear shooting opportunities in the box.
2 issues - Laca has no football brain to anticipate Odegaard's passes and no deep runner into the box to provide options for Odegaard to pass into channels.

Those 2 goals were scored by soloists who ran brilliantly into space, a shimmy to create a split-second opening and shoot accurately at goal.

Mikel Arteta is just a poor coach, a pale imitation of Guardiola's rapid passing high pressing game, and still clueless on high to breakdown a low block like what Brentford did.

Worse, suddenly, Arteta team looked disorganized when under pressure from rapid transition from defence to counter-attack like what Brentford did.

Certainly, Lage had taken notes and knew exactly how to win at Emirates on 24 Feb.
Wolves forward-line is vastly superior than that of Brentford, defend better than Brentford and counter-attack better than Brentford.

As long as Arteta is still clueless on how to break-down low block, and how to coach his team to pass efficiently, forget about Top-6, let alone Top-4.

The likes of Tiny Totts, ManU, WHU and Wolves are getting their acts together and will score more goals than a sorry-looking squad assembled by a clueless Arteta who knew only how to ape Guardiola as an assistant.

Mikel Arteta is like a Karate Master's favored disciple, leaving the dojo to setup his own dojo, armed with a copy of his Master "Basic 101 Kata for Dummies" with chapters on how to defence kata, link-up sequences but with a blank chapter on 'How to Attack".

Why a blank chapter?
The Master's advice:
"I have equipped you with the basic forms and a strong foundation to master my Art.
Once mastered, discard them!
My Art is formless, not static, not rigidly bound by archaic thinking.
It is up to you to advance my school by writing that blank chapter."

"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.โ€ Saint Thomas Aquinas

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
Date: 20/02/2022 07:10

Quote:
The likes of Tiny Totts, ManU, WHU and Wolves are getting their acts together

And how do you figure that out ?

Spurs first win after 2 straight defeats.
Man Utd 1 win in last 3 games and lost to Middlesbrough in the Cup.
And we beat Wolves.
West Ham. 1 win in last 5 prem games and that was against Watford.

"๐—œ๐—ณ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ณ๐—ถ๐—ฟ๐˜€๐˜ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ณ๐—ถ๐—ฟ๐˜€๐˜. ๐—œ๐—ณ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐˜€๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐—ผ๐—ป๐—ฑ, ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ป๐—ผ๐˜๐—ต๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ด."

Re: Arteta: A Whiff of Cryuffian Football?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/02/2022 11:09

Just wait.

"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.โ€ Saint Thomas Aquinas

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