Player Ratings v Preston North End
By Wasim
November 24 2009
Kevin Nolan was judged Man Of The Match for his performance against Preston North End last night, by Tyne-Talk's resident player rater Wasim4nufc. Read on to see how the rest of the team faired during the Monday night clash...........................
Player Ratings vs Preston
Steve Harper (6.5) - Didn't have too many saves to make but dealt with everything competently, when called upon.
Danny Simpson (6) - Hardly got into the game enough, compared to Enrique, but was decent on defence none the less.
Steven Taylor (7) - Great to have him back in the side. Made some important tackles,while also making the odd burst forward.
Fabricio Coloccini (7) - Solid at the back, while he's calming influence is starting to show. Coloccini and Taylor are arguably the best centre backs in the league.
Jose Enrique (6) - Excellent on defence, but it was his crossing, particularly in the 2nd half that let him down. He's understanding with Gutierrez is a great asset for us though.
Danny Guthrie (6) - His Set pieces were poor, while he gave the ball away on a couple of occasions, in critical areas of the field. Nonetheless seems to be one of our sparks on attack, and was playing out of position lets not forget.
Alan Smith (6.5) - I thought his defensive work was outstanding. He won possession on many occasions, but as skipper he nearly let us down and some may say he was lucky not to get sent off. Personally I didn't think he was, but still as captain he shouldn't take chances like that.
Kevin Nolan (7.5) - Took his goal brilliantly, while his allround play was also excellent. Showed good control, a cool head and was at the right place at the right time and I really hope we do keep hold of him come January.
Jonas Gutierrez (6.5) - There was the good and the bad in his game tonight. Firstly the good was his tracking back and the direct approach he had, especially as the game wore on in the 2nd half. The bad however, was his crossing, shots and trying to be fancy too much. For sheer effort though, he shouldn't get below a 6.5 in my opinion.
Marlon Harewood (6) - He worked hard, but for some reason I felt he was lucky not to be taken off. He lacks confidence and does not pose the same threat that Carroll does, in my opinion. What worries me, is that in a month or two's time, he'll go back to Villa, and Ranger would have lost out on a few starts, which could have helped in his development.
Andy Carroll (6) - Wasn't in the game as much as he would have liked, but was unlucky to be taken off. Showed glimpses of his talent, but unfortunately goal mouth opportunities were few and far between.
Substitutes
Nile Ranger (6.5) - Looked lively when on, and I'd be happy if he got a start in the next match, ahead of Harewood.
Tamas Kadar (7) - Started off shaky, when Mellor almost scored, but from there on, he did not put a foot wrong. Good to see him getting some game time.
Peter Lovenkrands (N/A) - Wasn't on long enough.
Man of the Match: Kevin Nolan
Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: TyneTalk (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 10:26
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Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: Biffins Bridge (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 12:39
Fair ratings pal. Between Smith and Nolan for MOTM but suppose Nolan might just shade it with the goal.
The defence is looking very good and Im pleased that Kadar has looked good when he has been thrown in. More games for him in front of Kash and Simpson at CB will do him the world of good.
Harewood has had his chance now. Would rather give Ranger more game time and Shola is almost back. That would give us Carroll, Ranger, Shola, Nolan (as he is more of forward) and Lovenkrands. Think we should send Harewood back when his loan expires and save on the wages. With the forwards we have we are a bit one dimensional and Harewood adds nothing different.
The defence is looking very good and Im pleased that Kadar has looked good when he has been thrown in. More games for him in front of Kash and Simpson at CB will do him the world of good.
Harewood has had his chance now. Would rather give Ranger more game time and Shola is almost back. That would give us Carroll, Ranger, Shola, Nolan (as he is more of forward) and Lovenkrands. Think we should send Harewood back when his loan expires and save on the wages. With the forwards we have we are a bit one dimensional and Harewood adds nothing different.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: TOONTILLIDIE (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 16:56
Even though Smith was looking like he could have been sent off I thought he was man of the match, was driving forward more and looked like he wanted to score. Fully agree about Harewood, the lad has had his chance and if Nolan isn't going to a second forward then we need to give Ranger a run out and give the lad some games. Personally Lovernkrands should be above Harewood in the pecking order so not to sure why the lad is getting a game.
The defence looks more solid when Colo and Taylor are there and thought Enrique had a another good game but let himself down with some of the passing but then so did a few of the players. Jonas was disappointing again and should have done far better
The defence looks more solid when Colo and Taylor are there and thought Enrique had a another good game but let himself down with some of the passing but then so did a few of the players. Jonas was disappointing again and should have done far better
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: tunyc (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 18:10
From what I've seen of the match, these ratings seem fair. A dull game but Nolan takes his lone chance.
Don't like double-duty for players, BB. Nolan can play forward but if he & Lovenkrands are used there our midfield is sapped of depth and loses bite going forward. It's good that we have a potential third CB in Kadar that allows Simpson to play RB exclusively.
I agree that we should send back Harewood & Kash but we need to bring in a striker-preferably smaller with pace (Jay Simpson?)-in January and a wide midfielder (McSheffrey?). It would be a better way to spend than to sign Sol.
Don't like double-duty for players, BB. Nolan can play forward but if he & Lovenkrands are used there our midfield is sapped of depth and loses bite going forward. It's good that we have a potential third CB in Kadar that allows Simpson to play RB exclusively.
I agree that we should send back Harewood & Kash but we need to bring in a striker-preferably smaller with pace (Jay Simpson?)-in January and a wide midfielder (McSheffrey?). It would be a better way to spend than to sign Sol.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: i! (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 18:22
Harper - Made a few good saves, solid performance - 7
Simpson - Wasn't a lot going on down the right hand side, didn't do anything wrong though - 6.5
Taylor - Consistent as ever - 7
Coloccini - Looked shakey at times, wasn't too convincing really, will not be good enough if we get back up - 6
Enrique - Linked up well with Jonas along the left, good in defence - 7
Guthrie - Quiet, drifted inside over and over again, made one good run down the middle but didn't release the pass - 6
Smith - Just what we need in this league, doesn't mess around, did well not to be sent off though - 7
Nolan - Got the goal, and was good all round 7
Gutierrez - Made some good runs down the left, crossing wasn't great, and had one shocking miss, one of our more dangerous players though - 7
Harewood - Just doesn't put the effort in, didn't really do anything, and should have gone off instead of Carroll. Send him back in December - 5.5
Carroll - Didn't do too much, solid enough - 6.5
Kadar - Nearly let Mellor in as soon as he came on, but was decent after that - 6.5
Ranger - Had a few decent shots and looked better than Carroll or Harewood had - 6.5
Lovenkrands - Wasn't on long enough - N/A
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Simpson - Wasn't a lot going on down the right hand side, didn't do anything wrong though - 6.5
Taylor - Consistent as ever - 7
Coloccini - Looked shakey at times, wasn't too convincing really, will not be good enough if we get back up - 6
Enrique - Linked up well with Jonas along the left, good in defence - 7
Guthrie - Quiet, drifted inside over and over again, made one good run down the middle but didn't release the pass - 6
Smith - Just what we need in this league, doesn't mess around, did well not to be sent off though - 7
Nolan - Got the goal, and was good all round 7
Gutierrez - Made some good runs down the left, crossing wasn't great, and had one shocking miss, one of our more dangerous players though - 7
Harewood - Just doesn't put the effort in, didn't really do anything, and should have gone off instead of Carroll. Send him back in December - 5.5
Carroll - Didn't do too much, solid enough - 6.5
Kadar - Nearly let Mellor in as soon as he came on, but was decent after that - 6.5
Ranger - Had a few decent shots and looked better than Carroll or Harewood had - 6.5
Lovenkrands - Wasn't on long enough - N/A
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Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: tunyc (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 20:09
i! is right on about a couple of things:
-Coloccini is still not good enough for the top flight. If an offer for him comes in he should be sold, and we should buy Kilgallon from SU. Or we could always add Sol until the end of the year.
-Guthrie is not a wide midfielder. He just doesn't have the instincts for it, and always ends up narrowing the formation.
-Harewood (and Kash) should be sent right back in January.
-Coloccini is still not good enough for the top flight. If an offer for him comes in he should be sold, and we should buy Kilgallon from SU. Or we could always add Sol until the end of the year.
-Guthrie is not a wide midfielder. He just doesn't have the instincts for it, and always ends up narrowing the formation.
-Harewood (and Kash) should be sent right back in January.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: wasim4nufc (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 20:38
I disagree about the Coloccini comments. I think he is doing well enough. We have the best defence in the league, and we have conceded just 5 goals in the 11 games which he has started this season. Remember Steven Taylor did not play in all the games as well, so he deserves some credit. As for next season, I feel, with another season behind him, he will be ready for the Premier League.
We should get rid of Harewood and Kash, but otherwise none of our permanent players should leave. Its all about getting promotion, so if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
Wasim's Sport Blog
Toon4life
We should get rid of Harewood and Kash, but otherwise none of our permanent players should leave. Its all about getting promotion, so if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
Wasim's Sport Blog
Toon4life
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: i! (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 20:41
Preston had a hatful of chances last night and if their finishing was any better they could've put 2 or 3 past us at least. A good side would have punished us last night.
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Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: tunyc (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 20:47
Do you think Colo's good enough for the prem, though, Wasim?
If not, he'll be an albatross if we get back up, though I suppose we could try to sell him at that point. He'll generate more interest/cash in January, and if you think we'll slide through the window without selling anyone we can agree to disagree.
If not, he'll be an albatross if we get back up, though I suppose we could try to sell him at that point. He'll generate more interest/cash in January, and if you think we'll slide through the window without selling anyone we can agree to disagree.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: lostmekeys (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 21:47
tunyc - rather than singling out colo as not being good enough for the prem, why dont you have a stab at telling us who is?
i dont think he'd be as out of place as, ooh, the entire midfield, and certainly no more so than any of the strikers either!
maybe i'm exaggerating here, but we have built the current season on a strong defence. if we had any more than that, we'd have a much better goal difference. i'd suggest we would be a very very poor premier league side with the current staff. check out how many one goal wins, we arent ripping this league up, rather we are just about keeping our noses in front.
so, which current players would you start in august if we somehow manage to get ourselves promoted?
i dont think he'd be as out of place as, ooh, the entire midfield, and certainly no more so than any of the strikers either!
maybe i'm exaggerating here, but we have built the current season on a strong defence. if we had any more than that, we'd have a much better goal difference. i'd suggest we would be a very very poor premier league side with the current staff. check out how many one goal wins, we arent ripping this league up, rather we are just about keeping our noses in front.
so, which current players would you start in august if we somehow manage to get ourselves promoted?
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: tunyc (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 22:09
Harper, Simpson, S. Taylor, Enrique and Nolan are all definitely good enough. If they can find some sort of consistent form I'd add Guthrie and Gutierrez to that list. There are kids getting burn in the PL who aren't as good as Carroll and Ranger. Smith may be worth another look in midfield.
Whereas Colo, Butt, Shola, R. Taylor, Lovehandles, Barton, Geremi and Xisco should be shown the door. If you ask me, which you did.
Who's on your list of guys to keep?
Whereas Colo, Butt, Shola, R. Taylor, Lovehandles, Barton, Geremi and Xisco should be shown the door. If you ask me, which you did.
Who's on your list of guys to keep?
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: Biffins Bridge (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 02:02
This is a debate I put on a thread a couple of weeks back. I am worried a bit about how we would handle going up.
On the Colo/Jonas front I would sell them if a decent offer came along. Niether showed anything in the Premierleague and are not exactly amazing in the league below. End of the day we payed around 15 mill for the pair and wages will no doubt top 150k. Thats not a good enough return when you could pick up Killgallon for next to nowt on 20k.
Players for the premiership IF we go up that are in the starting 11 at the mo.
Harper
Simpson (if signed)
Taylor
Jose
Nolan (poss)
Smith (poss)
Carroll
I think Barton would be our best midfield player (not that it would take much) if I thought his attitude would be right and he could stay fit. Havnt named Ranger as he is not playing every game but would obviously keep him along with Kadar. Unsure Smith still has it for the premiership and not sure Nolan has the legs for it. I say the last two with a bit of a heavy heart as they have been great for us this season but we must think for the future as well.
I completley agree that players shouldnt be sold in January but, just say, if we were guaranteed promotion without Smith and Nolan would you want to sell them. I know its a moot point but the way they are playing we could get decent money for them and again they are on top wages and I think we all have our doubts that they can still do it in the premier league.
Reiterate that I dont want them sold, just a thought.
Carroll and Ranger have impressed but could do with a different sort of foil for them to play with.
Two players who will defo not be here is Butt and Gerami so there is around 100k a week we will save (makes you sick). R Taylor and Guthrie are just not good enough full stop. I like them and they might be nice lads or whatever but not good enough.
On the Colo/Jonas front I would sell them if a decent offer came along. Niether showed anything in the Premierleague and are not exactly amazing in the league below. End of the day we payed around 15 mill for the pair and wages will no doubt top 150k. Thats not a good enough return when you could pick up Killgallon for next to nowt on 20k.
Players for the premiership IF we go up that are in the starting 11 at the mo.
Harper
Simpson (if signed)
Taylor
Jose
Nolan (poss)
Smith (poss)
Carroll
I think Barton would be our best midfield player (not that it would take much) if I thought his attitude would be right and he could stay fit. Havnt named Ranger as he is not playing every game but would obviously keep him along with Kadar. Unsure Smith still has it for the premiership and not sure Nolan has the legs for it. I say the last two with a bit of a heavy heart as they have been great for us this season but we must think for the future as well.
I completley agree that players shouldnt be sold in January but, just say, if we were guaranteed promotion without Smith and Nolan would you want to sell them. I know its a moot point but the way they are playing we could get decent money for them and again they are on top wages and I think we all have our doubts that they can still do it in the premier league.
Reiterate that I dont want them sold, just a thought.
Carroll and Ranger have impressed but could do with a different sort of foil for them to play with.
Two players who will defo not be here is Butt and Gerami so there is around 100k a week we will save (makes you sick). R Taylor and Guthrie are just not good enough full stop. I like them and they might be nice lads or whatever but not good enough.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: waffles (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 05:31
Quote:tunyc
If not, he'll be an albatross if we get back up, though I suppose we could try to sell him at that point.
Learn your metaphors. He'd be a "dead albatross" not an "albatross." You're usually on top of your game with the academia, tunyc.
[etext.virginia.edu]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:25:05:32:45 by waffles.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: tunyc (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 14:56
No, no-I got it right. You can use the term albatross as a metaphor for a burden, derived from the poem you cite, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner:
I think that passage makes its metaphoric potential clear, but the wikipedia entry for this is also pretty succinct:
albatross-a metaphor
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:25:15:00:30 by tunyc.
Quote:Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young
Instead of the cross, the Albatross
About my neck was hung
I think that passage makes its metaphoric potential clear, but the wikipedia entry for this is also pretty succinct:
albatross-a metaphor
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:25:15:00:30 by tunyc.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: lostmekeys (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 15:28
the internet - no sleight too small to bother with!
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: lostmekeys (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 15:50
back to the 'next season' thingamajig.
i reckon for the purpose of this i'm gonna ignore wages/potential transfer fees, etc. i just asked which players were worth a starting place in a premier league side, should we somehow find ourselves with such a thing.
i accept that we arent looking for superstars, just players good enough to hold down a shirt and contribute regularly to the things which we do right as a team, and not let themselves down any more than any other player. realistically, we wouldnt be looking to do great things next season if we were promoted, just consolidate our new position.
harper is in.
i disagree that danny simpson has done enough YET to be nailed on here, he has looked decent enough in a league where fullbacks get a crucial extra moment on the ball, its one position where the gulf between the leagues seems widest. for the same reason i'd have half an eye on a new left back, if one became available. whatever happens, enrique has a few months, like simpson, to make his point. taylor is a cert, colo a possibility. i'd like to see a bit of aggression, he could be a bit faster, but he is a cool customer with usually good positional play. this is always highlighted when it goes wrong, but go to our goals against column to see how often it has gone wrong this season.
only taylor a cert out of the back four, then.
the midfield have all been tried plenty times in the premier league, and all played some part in our downfall last time around. realistically, we arent going to sign 4 new first choice mids, so i'd keep nolan and guthrie. jonas was greta the other night, man of the match by a street, but he couldnt turn his effort or his inspiration into productive work, so he's another who is only on trial til may. (i really dont think we'd have won, or even drawn without his play on monday, he took the ball from threatening situations and took it right up the pitch several times, then blew it of course, but he stopped real danger with his running. no-one else could have - game changing. go a goal down away from home and we'd have been toast).
so, nolan and guthrie.
up front we have no premier league strikers. carroll may develop further during the season, as may ranger, but right now no-one could make a case for building an attack around either. shola it is, simply because he's here and he's the only one who has done it before.
so, harper taylor nolan guthrie (starting to doubt guth even as i write, he's lucky to be in) and shola.
its not much, is it?
i hope we go up, but it brings its own set of problems.
i reckon for the purpose of this i'm gonna ignore wages/potential transfer fees, etc. i just asked which players were worth a starting place in a premier league side, should we somehow find ourselves with such a thing.
i accept that we arent looking for superstars, just players good enough to hold down a shirt and contribute regularly to the things which we do right as a team, and not let themselves down any more than any other player. realistically, we wouldnt be looking to do great things next season if we were promoted, just consolidate our new position.
harper is in.
i disagree that danny simpson has done enough YET to be nailed on here, he has looked decent enough in a league where fullbacks get a crucial extra moment on the ball, its one position where the gulf between the leagues seems widest. for the same reason i'd have half an eye on a new left back, if one became available. whatever happens, enrique has a few months, like simpson, to make his point. taylor is a cert, colo a possibility. i'd like to see a bit of aggression, he could be a bit faster, but he is a cool customer with usually good positional play. this is always highlighted when it goes wrong, but go to our goals against column to see how often it has gone wrong this season.
only taylor a cert out of the back four, then.
the midfield have all been tried plenty times in the premier league, and all played some part in our downfall last time around. realistically, we arent going to sign 4 new first choice mids, so i'd keep nolan and guthrie. jonas was greta the other night, man of the match by a street, but he couldnt turn his effort or his inspiration into productive work, so he's another who is only on trial til may. (i really dont think we'd have won, or even drawn without his play on monday, he took the ball from threatening situations and took it right up the pitch several times, then blew it of course, but he stopped real danger with his running. no-one else could have - game changing. go a goal down away from home and we'd have been toast).
so, nolan and guthrie.
up front we have no premier league strikers. carroll may develop further during the season, as may ranger, but right now no-one could make a case for building an attack around either. shola it is, simply because he's here and he's the only one who has done it before.
so, harper taylor nolan guthrie (starting to doubt guth even as i write, he's lucky to be in) and shola.
its not much, is it?
i hope we go up, but it brings its own set of problems.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: tunyc (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 19:25
Wouldn't keep Shola. The strikeforce is the real problem area if we get back up, which is part of why it would be nice to pick up McSheffrey and/or Jay Simpson in January.
I like Carroll, Ranger and Simpson precisely because they're young. As long as they have a good squad around them, they're going to get better and won't lose us any significant amount of points. It would be nice to have someone other than Guthrie/R. Taylor/Geremi to play in front of Simpson as he develops. On that topic, I still think Guthrie is a solid squad player, even in the PL. Nolan is definitely good enough if motivated and used properly. I think he let himself go at the end of his Bolton tenure because it was quite clear once SA left that that club is headed nowhere (well, maybe the fizzy pop league). Enrique I'm not quite convinced of, but at a certain point you've got to let him prove it or not. Unless some Spanish or Italian club comes in and offers us a silly fee. Apparently Shorey's available. I agree, lmk, that the fullback position is maybe the most demanding in the top flight-but that's a reason to give any sort of promising prospect a shot since they're so hard to come by.
I like Carroll, Ranger and Simpson precisely because they're young. As long as they have a good squad around them, they're going to get better and won't lose us any significant amount of points. It would be nice to have someone other than Guthrie/R. Taylor/Geremi to play in front of Simpson as he develops. On that topic, I still think Guthrie is a solid squad player, even in the PL. Nolan is definitely good enough if motivated and used properly. I think he let himself go at the end of his Bolton tenure because it was quite clear once SA left that that club is headed nowhere (well, maybe the fizzy pop league). Enrique I'm not quite convinced of, but at a certain point you've got to let him prove it or not. Unless some Spanish or Italian club comes in and offers us a silly fee. Apparently Shorey's available. I agree, lmk, that the fullback position is maybe the most demanding in the top flight-but that's a reason to give any sort of promising prospect a shot since they're so hard to come by.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: Biffins Bridge (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 20:01
Nice comment Tunyc, espec about the young lads. Its a win win with the young lads we have as we havnt paid anything for them and they are on fairly low wages. With Simpson, if we get him, he will cost nothing or a nominal fee with again reasonable wages. If we go and can improve on him then he becomes a squad player or gets sold for maybe a profit.
Think the thing with Nolan is that Sam had him playing higher up the pitch and it would appear that Megson dropped him into a central role. Thats the worry I suppose as he I dont think he can cut it in the central role and could we afford to play with him and another up front.
Think the thing with Nolan is that Sam had him playing higher up the pitch and it would appear that Megson dropped him into a central role. Thats the worry I suppose as he I dont think he can cut it in the central role and could we afford to play with him and another up front.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: lostmekeys (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 22:05
guys, you can blood one or two at a time, fair enough, but not all of them at once, and none are going to be any better than ordinary, seriously.
shorey's stock has fallen low, i think i read forest were close to a deal for the one time england hopeful. and mcsheffrey (fave of yours lately!) has been too close to an improving brum team to be considered. he was out of favour a while ago, not so much now.
the question was about playing games in 9 months time, not preparing them for three years time.
my original point in asking was that i thought it was harsh to rule out colo while not commenting on anyone else, now it would appear that colo is nowhere near good enough, but lots of others (sim, guth, smith, carroll cheif amonngst them) are worth a START next season. i do think thats harsh.
(also would be tempted to withold decision on lovenkrands, which i didnt do earlier)
shorey's stock has fallen low, i think i read forest were close to a deal for the one time england hopeful. and mcsheffrey (fave of yours lately!) has been too close to an improving brum team to be considered. he was out of favour a while ago, not so much now.
the question was about playing games in 9 months time, not preparing them for three years time.
my original point in asking was that i thought it was harsh to rule out colo while not commenting on anyone else, now it would appear that colo is nowhere near good enough, but lots of others (sim, guth, smith, carroll cheif amonngst them) are worth a START next season. i do think thats harsh.
(also would be tempted to withold decision on lovenkrands, which i didnt do earlier)
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: wasim4nufc (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 03:01
Quote:Tunyc
Do you think Colo's good enough for the prem, though, Wasim?
Personally I think he is good enough to keep. He has improved this season, and with more games under his belt come August, he would be worthy of keeping. If a good offer came in for him, I'd also then sell him, but I wouldn't just sell him for the sake of getting rid of his wages. He has experience in top leagues, while he could pass that on to the likes of Kadar and Simpson (if he stays).
Moving along to the issue of who is good enough to keep, I'll put my list down.
Harper, Steven Taylor, Coloccini (reasons mentioned above), Enrique (Has been very consistent this year and should be kept), Guthrie (decent squad player), Nolan (agree with Tunyc, in that he is good enough if played as a second striker), Jonas (His work rate and direct style makes him a good choice) and Ameobi.
I'm not yet fully convinced about Simpson, but if we sign him, it'll be free or a small fee so why not. Carroll, Kadar and Ranger are all good prospects so I'll add them while Ryan Taylor isn't bad as a midfielder, Smith is good enough as defensive midfielder in my opinion and Barton and Pancrate have this season to prove themselves.
That leaves a squad of:
Harper, Krul, Forster
Simpson, Coloccini, S.Taylor, Kadar, Enrique
Guthrie, Smith, Nolan, Jonas, R.Taylor
Ameobi, Carroll, Ranger
"Trialists" = Barton, Pancrate, Lovenkrands
The reason my list is somewhat extended is the fact that we cannot just make wholesale changes as look whats happening to Portsmouth this season. My squad has space for the signings to be Premier League class players, for example, a left back, right back, centre back, winger and a striker. I think if we get promoted the above players will be more confident than they were last season so that may give us a better chance too.
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Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: lostmekeys (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 16:40
think of it as a fantasy exercise wasim. you dont need to consider the squad, just player by player who could do it.
or imagine you are a lower tier prem manager, looking to sign players and you know our squad is for sale and within your budget.
you wouldnt want quite so many of them for your first team, would you mate?
or imagine you are a lower tier prem manager, looking to sign players and you know our squad is for sale and within your budget.
you wouldnt want quite so many of them for your first team, would you mate?
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: Biffins Bridge (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 17:12
Too right LMK. Most of that squad is the one that got us relegated.
Wasim, you mentioned adding a winger to that squad. Can you Imagine our midfeild now with a new winger. We would get tortured in the premier league. In my eyes we need at least 3 midfielders as well as a striker, and a full back and centre half even if we sign Simpson and Kilgallon.
Ameobi is a no no. Time to move on if we get promoted. I do agree though that we cant buy 6-7 players in the summer and expect them to gel straight away. Two or so in January then the rest in the summer should we go up. Easier said than done with the purse strings tightened though.
Wasim, you mentioned adding a winger to that squad. Can you Imagine our midfeild now with a new winger. We would get tortured in the premier league. In my eyes we need at least 3 midfielders as well as a striker, and a full back and centre half even if we sign Simpson and Kilgallon.
Ameobi is a no no. Time to move on if we get promoted. I do agree though that we cant buy 6-7 players in the summer and expect them to gel straight away. Two or so in January then the rest in the summer should we go up. Easier said than done with the purse strings tightened though.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: TOONTILLIDIE (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 18:23
If we get to the premiership then Harper is worth keeping but all depends on funds as he isn't going to be a goalkeeper that will get you anywhere near the top 10. I would like us to go for Jaaskelainen from Bolton. Keep Krul as he is one for the future.
Simpson will be cheap or on a free and worth the punt, probably struggle against top wingers but atleast could be a squad player. Colo would be worth selling as he will struggle witht he pace and quality of the premiership but wait until the world cup and then hopefully get some half decent cash for him. S.Taylor and Enrique are defo.
Guthrie as a squad player and can get some goals and I think there is more to come from him. In the premiership then you can't play Smith and Nolan togethor as there is no creativaty so one would have go. Plenty of discussions about Jonas but to me he has to go, far better in the premiership who will produce regular. R.Taylor isn't going to be a top midfielder and if we can cash in. Barton just want to be shot, get rid of the c@nt, far to much trouble and we are still waiting for him to produce.
Ameobi sell him, in the top flight he will be cr@p, Carroll worth keeping, good young lad who could chip in with goals. Ranger is one for the future for me, and think this lad will be a great forward in years to come. Lovernkrands hasn't been playing so hard to say, but did ok last year in the premiership.
Simpson will be cheap or on a free and worth the punt, probably struggle against top wingers but atleast could be a squad player. Colo would be worth selling as he will struggle witht he pace and quality of the premiership but wait until the world cup and then hopefully get some half decent cash for him. S.Taylor and Enrique are defo.
Guthrie as a squad player and can get some goals and I think there is more to come from him. In the premiership then you can't play Smith and Nolan togethor as there is no creativaty so one would have go. Plenty of discussions about Jonas but to me he has to go, far better in the premiership who will produce regular. R.Taylor isn't going to be a top midfielder and if we can cash in. Barton just want to be shot, get rid of the c@nt, far to much trouble and we are still waiting for him to produce.
Ameobi sell him, in the top flight he will be cr@p, Carroll worth keeping, good young lad who could chip in with goals. Ranger is one for the future for me, and think this lad will be a great forward in years to come. Lovernkrands hasn't been playing so hard to say, but did ok last year in the premiership.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: senyabtoon (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 19:39
agree with what alot of what has been said on the players front but for me we must keep nolan harper taylor enrique and simpson maybe carroll to to give us the option of going long in the last 20 if things are not going are way but other than that we need too many players than we can afford maybe some shrewd loan deals from the gooners and i would still love to see m jonhson in black n white and think if we go up will be able to get him this time
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: wasim4nufc (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 20:18
I feel at the moment, the guys who should be safe regarding a place in the team next season are Harper, S.Taylor, Enrique and Nolan. Nolan as a second striker, particularly away from home, where we could play a big striker with him just behind. Other than that the others I mentioned earlier will be good enough for the squad (Simpson, Coloccini, Guthrie, Carroll, Smith etc.). I think a good point was raised in that perhaps Smith and Nolan shouldn't start together, so hence I've chosen Nolan for his goals, with Smith being a squad player. Whatever we do, I think we need to build the team around Steven Taylor and perhaps make him captain, to ward off in interest there might be in him.
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Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: lostmekeys (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 20:24
shola shola shola shola.
unless the swine ditches our promotion push for a month in the sun. unforgivable if he does.
he knows his way around, and would be good enough by a long way from day one. this isnt true of any of our other strikers, by the way.
what we have learned from this is that we dont have many dead cert types, in any area of the pitch. and we all know we wont be buying a new team, whatever happens. so, we need to understand that whoever we stick with, in the possible event of promotion, would not be first choice, ideal, dream players. with this in mind, colo would be very useful, in my eyes, unless we happen upon more than one perfect centre half in the mean time. i for one dont consider matthew kilgallon to be one of those, though i'd like him to sign. colo, taylor, killg, and one other, preferably better, would be a half decent pool for us to pick from of we found ourselves up a division.
hows edgar doing, anyone know?
bigger things indeed!
unless the swine ditches our promotion push for a month in the sun. unforgivable if he does.
he knows his way around, and would be good enough by a long way from day one. this isnt true of any of our other strikers, by the way.
what we have learned from this is that we dont have many dead cert types, in any area of the pitch. and we all know we wont be buying a new team, whatever happens. so, we need to understand that whoever we stick with, in the possible event of promotion, would not be first choice, ideal, dream players. with this in mind, colo would be very useful, in my eyes, unless we happen upon more than one perfect centre half in the mean time. i for one dont consider matthew kilgallon to be one of those, though i'd like him to sign. colo, taylor, killg, and one other, preferably better, would be a half decent pool for us to pick from of we found ourselves up a division.
hows edgar doing, anyone know?
bigger things indeed!Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: senyabtoon (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 20:41
ok will agree with shola but only for back up we are in dire need of a fox in the box owen anyone?
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: wasim4nufc (IP Logged)
Date: 26/11/2009 21:05
I think despite the fact that we only have a few players who would be automatic selections, there's a decent amount of players who would be good as part of a squad. I haven't seen Kilgallon play too often so I won't be able to comment on him, but many of you are keen on him, so I wouldn't mind him coming. When I said that we needed a winger earlier, I was just highlighting the areas we needed to buy players for, and by no means meant one per position, so apologies for not making that more clear.
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Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: waffles (IP Logged)
Date: 27/11/2009 01:53
Quote:lostmekeys
with this in mind, colo would be very useful, in my eyes, unless we happen upon more than one perfect centre half in the mean time. i for one dont consider matthew kilgallon to be one of those, though i'd like him to sign. colo, taylor, killg, and one other, preferably better, would be a half decent pool for us to pick from of we found ourselves up a division.
I agree that we shouldn't ditch Colo unless we get a nice fat purse for it (which won't happen).
Killgalon and St. Ledger are the two best CBs worth purchasing at the moment.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: tunyc (IP Logged)
Date: 29/11/2009 04:16
Fair enough about Edgar, lmk. You got me.
Ameobi may be kept...he is still our most polished striker. But we can't be depending on him, or we'll just be s.hit all over again.
Ameobi may be kept...he is still our most polished striker. But we can't be depending on him, or we'll just be s.hit all over again.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: TOONTILLIDIE (IP Logged)
Date: 29/11/2009 08:52
Shola will do nothing in the premiership, worth keeping if we have to but if we have the chance to cash in on him if he has a good year in the fizzy pop league then I would flog him. Our team isn't good enough for the premiership and once again we will struggle if we get back up there.
I know we won't have the investment but it would be good if we could spend a bit, as I think there are plenty of players in this division to keep us up.
I know we won't have the investment but it would be good if we could spend a bit, as I think there are plenty of players in this division to keep us up.
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: lostmekeys (IP Logged)
Date: 29/11/2009 20:09
this whole 'who to keep' thing was actually just an attempt to show how far we are from having a competitive squad if we did go up. we wont be making huge changes whatever happens,the way i see it, so we would have to keep them all, the good, the bad and the ugly, and hope that we are also able to add some quality wherever possible. wont be easy under current circumstances
Re: Player Ratings v Preston North End
Posted by: TOONTILLIDIE (IP Logged)
Date: 01/12/2009 21:44
Fully agree not many changes will happen but if we can cash in on the cr@p who won't be able to handle it in the top flight if we get there and re-invest the cash on some cheap young players and try to get some up and coming players who won't be frightened and willing to take a few risks
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