Match Preview/Stats/Thread: Bolton Wanderers v Newcastle Utd

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nolan
1-0 50/1 free bet on paddy power

quiet today :/ dont know why we aim for williamson on set pieces he never wins them

stupid pen to give away

Penalty 1-0 Bolton

fustrating

2-0 Bolton



C'mon Newcastle

Hate to pick put Jose but how many times has he given the ball away today

Enrqiue has been terrible thus far. I counted at least FIVE occasions in which he gave the ball away. We not showing enough to warrant getting anything from today's game. He needs to make a few changes, as Spurs did at half time today.



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

enrique and jonas have been the likliest route to getting back into the match though
they are all we have going forward today. guthrie isnt up to speed, and nolan has to look after smith. shola is working hard though, he's certainly capable in this mood of making something happen

thats that f u cked then. we have no answer today

Games over. Nice take by Carroll though to make it 3-1...



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

Quote:

lostmekeys
thats that f u cked then. we have no answer today

ha, posted as carroll got us in the game. need another soon as poss, and a better showing at the back (all over really)

Nm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:20:16:14:24 by ColoradoMagpie.

suicidal by nolan. trying to hard at his old club

What a stupid thing from Nolan to do. Since when have we become a dirty team. First Barton's punch against Blackburn, then Williamson's head butt in the first half, and now a poor challenge by Nolan with no intention of going for the ball. Focus on the game lads!



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

i'm blaming smith. we look a different side, the back four look like strangers, we have no shape from there. this isnt because bolton are doing anything special, though they have attacked well at times. the tiote/barton midfield gives such a great platform that we are lost without it.
jonas is having a better game than usual but without more people on his wavelength our attacks are falling flat.
i'd get guthrie central and see if routeldge can peg them back with his pace, to allow us to play a bit. the way we lose the ball is creating so much pressure for our spine

gah, this is painful

4-1 Dammit

What is Coloccini doing...Its so frustrating!



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

colo? wtf?
he knows you cant do that, any forward will take that off him, never mind a big guy like that.

we win 5 4, howay the lads.

Unfair on Ameobi as well. Didn't deserve to be taken off.



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

Its turning into one of those everything that could go wrong has gone wrong days.



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

Colo RED .. this is a game we hopefully learn from

Quote:

wasim4nufc
Its turning into one of those everything that could go wrong has gone wrong days.

yeah, but we havent had an injury, yet....

Four points away from the relegation zone with the league leaders and champions next. Just thought I'd mention that.



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

but with tiote in for smith, wasim. we'll murder them!

Penalty 5-1

hardly matters but...that was never a pen. jose got the ball

Its fact we are $hit against physical & stronger teams, and the kind of tactics those managers employ, Stoke, Blackburn, & Bolton, all the above sides bigger stronger and the managrs all do the same thing send their sides out to ruff you up and play for every foul set peice imaginable, frustrate sides and not give anything back, its cr@p to watch but if its against a weak or shorter side always works!!!

Time to learn & learn the hard way,

smith should never take the field for us again. i would say should never play again, but he took the pitch today without playing at all, so thats no good.
awful.

carroll was very good, but he cant do it alone. shola and jonas were just about acceptable, i didnt think jose did as much wrong at the back as some others said earlier and he kept attacking all afternoon. other than that, we were as bad as anything two seasons ago. not a nice thought, as effort and organisation have been the two factors keeping us going in the right direction. both were missing today.

Missed Tiotte today...plus we need more pace coming from midfield to support Carroll.

Ouch, 5-1 is painful.

Yeah Routledge' pace did seem to help us going forward when he came on. We have to learn from days like this and its going to be a test of Hughton's credentials as manager. He needs to realise we've lost to teams like Stoke, Blackburn and Bolton who all play a similar game but credit must go to Bolton for they played some good football at times as well. Its 8 days until our next game and hopefully the full week's build up can do us good. Carroll certainly deserves a few days off.



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

We are so inconsistent though, this has to be a big worry for the management.

Cannot believe this - did we just not play? I know we haven't been consistent but a 5-1 thrashing?

Problem also is that previously the team have failed to comeback from big defeats. I hope that isn't the case this time as this is a critcal time of the season where they need to be prepared both physically and mentally at all times.

Definitely watching MOTD tonight! I only saw the score after the game had finished. Wasn;t able to keep tabs during the game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:20:18:44:53 by Carys.

the heart of the team was missing, carys. central midfield is so important that to get it as massively wrong as hughton did today means giving the match away.

five year contract for wor chris? not yet.

everyone knew what playing smith and nolan together in the middel would do to the team. surely the manager knew also? there was no evidence of a plan to counter our weakness. even if we had turned up to sit back and play long balls out to the strikers/wingers, it would have showed a cohesive approach to playing without any pace/guile/passing in the middle of the pitch. we didnt do this though, we did nothing. and wasting guthrie out wide meant this wouldnt have worked as well as it would with routledges pace. our midfield left the defence wide open for 90 mins, the two centre halves will be having nightmares for weeks after this.

never again, please mr hughton!

Smith is past his best, but with a lack of choice to make with injuries and suspensions then he will play if we are in this situation again. Time to get rid of him, can't see him dropping to the championship. I know he played their last season with us, but he was on bloody good money

Can't see many premiership teams taking him, other than blackburn or maybe a spell in scotland will do him, Rangers are getting taken over.

Bit of a shock result, but Bolton under their gaffer are quite good and at the moment the league table is close, and probably the closest it has been at this stage of the season for a while.

I think lmk brings up a good point. CH missed a trick here yesterday. He should have known what playing Smith and Nolan would do to the team. I mean us fans knew what that was going to do. He is making a few mistakes from what I've seen.

Firstly, he played Guthrie last week against Fulham, who had Duff at left back. Duff is simply not a left back and we should have exposed him by playing Routledge and giving him the license to attack Duff for any fullback hates a winger running at him with pace.

Secondly, he played Smith and Nolan together which was asking for trouble and that cost us dearly.

Lastly he assumed Guthrie was going to be as effective as Barton on the right without looking at Guthrie's history of playing on the right. Routledge showed his pace on the right offered us something different when he came on and we created chances late on even when we were down to ten men.

I still back Hughton 100% but I think he needs to learn from his past mistakes.



Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

yeah, wasim, i dont see hughton as stubborn, he has a history of changing tactics and personnel when things are going wrong. we have hd managers before (notably big sam) who would view changing the team as an admission of fault on their own part. if i had to criticise, hughton doesnt change things as quickly as he could do, but then he cant be seen as being too quick to do this, or the players wouldnt ever know where they stand. to allow things to fail is to allow them a chance to succeed, the trick is to know when to change. i guess we wont see that central mids pairing again, given the disaster yesterday and the fact tiote is back next time, and barton the game after that.

lessons learned by now should include the fact that guthrie is not good/disciplined enough to play wide midfield. its not worth it, especially when we could have used routledge, or even changed shape to include loven or ranger.

Quote:

lostmekeys
lessons learned by now should include the fact that guthrie is not good/disciplined enough to play wide midfield. its not worth it, especially when we could have used routledge, or even changed shape to include loven or ranger.

To be fair though, that lesson should have been learned last season when we teetered between Ryan Taylor and Guthrie on the right flank with neither really showing their worth. Hughton has confused the ability to provide service with the ability to play in wide positions. Likewise, the Smith/Nolan lesson should have been learned last year as well. If Tiote is out, Guthrie has to fill that role, not Smudge. I'm not suggesting that we run for the hills, but those are obvious points that every fan saw last season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:21:18:10:09 by waffles.

yeah, waffles, we all noticed it last year and commented on here often. we were edging the games though, so our objections were always qualified by results. maybe the boss thought a team good enough to win 'badly' in the champs would put up more fight against a better sidem in this division. in truth, it wasnt even a contest.
if it was to be played again i'd suggest lining up on our own box like blackburn did at st james, and firing balls forward for jonas and routledge to chase. yesterday we didnt even line up defensively, the thinking must have been that we could play through them and hold our own. this is the most puzzling aspect, why would anyone at the club think we could do that? our best eleven would have made a fist of it, but to say we'd be favourites to win would be very wrong, so to play the side we did and not even give a nod to sitting deeper juts seems really stupid, the more i think about it (afterwards, granted)

I wouldn't call it stubborn, but when I'm enumerating CH's faults rigidness in sticking to his plans is on that list. He's very slow to bring on a sub; he's stated he won't add to the squad months before he needed to; he apparently didn't learn last season that Guthrie is not a wide midfielder and that Nolan and Smith do not have it in the center of midfield. Very frustrating considering he could have just started Guthrie & Perch in central midfield, put Routledge on the wing and left Nolan up high.

do you have a list of changes you like?

it may include losing nolan from center mid around xmas, in favour of an attacking role. getting two wingers in to the side to transform a defensive grinder of a team into runaway champs last season. adding shola when the goals dried up a few weeks ago, which was a huge change to our formation as we had been 4 5 1 for weeks, and resulted in three wins in a row including the derby. smith needed an injury to drop out, but hughton kept his captain out when he was fit again, because guthrie did better.
i prefer to think a fully fit guthrie would have started in smiths place last weekend, but we'll never know. whatever the actual question mark in the managers mind over each of routledge and lovenkrands must have had an effect also.

here's hoping we at least get positive change, as we have had whenever we have gone a few games without a win under this guy, though i must say fair point about the subs being late and cautious

Nolan adds goals, and when he scores he justifies his position for me, but the games he doesn't then I wonder what he does on the pitch, and lacks pace. I think a quicker midfileder who can attack is the better option, with Ben Arfa fitting the bill perfect. In the central midfielder when we have a couple of suspension we lack the pace that is needed in the premiership. Last season we got a away with it as we were a class above for the division.

We need to spend a bit cash to bring in some extra players, get rid of some of the players, but I am still happy with the job CH is doing, yes he us learning and making mistakes, but then he pulls out results when needed. I think the team will build and get better, and this season was always going to be hard, adjusting back to the premiership and people wanting us to fail.

I said it before but this season results not just for us, have been weird, and teams getting big results when they were not expected, us against Villa for example. Once we get the players fit, then the results will follow.

The issue here, is the lack of depth and quality that we have, and possible the lack of cash in the market. I would imigane if CH had the money he would splash it on players, so when he is saying nobody is coming in, maybe the discussion has already happened with Ashley. But it has happened, when it was said that we won't be buying when we have. The club has changed, and for the good behind the scenes, and expections have to as fans.

jesus, does anyone really take club statements about players coming in or not seriously? after the last two years?

hard to believe, but each to their own. ttid and tunyc, you have both mentioned this, i dont think either of you really believe it, do youi?

Absolutely, I do have a list of changes I like from CH. But he's generally a cautious manager rather than bold and occasionally to a fault. He's also stubborn-that's stubborn, not thick. I don't think that he doesn't get it that Guthrie has not succeeded at RM, he just thinks that if he gives him one more go Guthrie will come good.That's stubbornness, resisting to admit that he's simply wrong about something. Against Blackburn, he sent out the exact same lineup as against Arsenal three days earlier. CH only used two subs: one for Ameobi when he pulled up injured; the next didn't happen until the 88th minute. He needs to be more flexible in areas, more willing to change the shape of the team to accommodate available personnel or in-game circumstances.

That said, this term so far has been a success for CH and I'm not taking that away from him at all.

As for new players: I think we may be in for loans, that's all. We're only a few points off the bad end of the table and some of the clubs below us will reload. I can't believe Ashley & CH will consider their hands tied by a statement if it's obvious at that point (and it may be) that we need reinforcements.

think of it from another angle, tunyc. maybe hughton doesnt think he has any better option. thats not the same as thinking guthrie will improve, or prove him right, but thinking that his plans are better played out with guthrie in than routledge. you see the difference? not saying i agree, but he seems to have gone right off our wide man in the last two months, for some reason.
clearly the match on saturday didnt go to plan, but hopefully there actually was a plan beforehand. perhaps it involved guthrie inhabiting the space barton has been using so well, where barton doesnt ever head for the touchline like wayne does, and also patrols some of the space infield which wayne leaves alone. its the only sense i can make of it, though i have to stress that i dont agree with it any more than you do!

If CH told me Guthrie is a better option than Routledge on the right I'd ask him why Routledge is in the squad if he's kept out of the lineup by a guy who's out of position and struggling. Barton isn't an RM either but hey, we had success with him there and you can't argue with that. I understand the temptation to rationalize Guthrie out wide, but Occam's Razor tells me that it's probably just CH being stubborn.

but...guthrie has only been there for a couple of games, and before that he had made the switch inside. the last time he was fit and in the team he was keeping the club captain out of his preferred midfield position.

hughton stubbornly sticking to a plan he gave up 8 months ago? are you sure? why would he care which of his reserves was upset to be playing where, when guthrie and smith (and wayne for that matter((sick of typing routledge by the way, he's wayne now))) are not part of plan 'a'? unless he's trying to make a case for signing a replacement for wayne in jan, it makes no sense that he is playing guthrie wide against his better instinct. none.

I can see a replacemment happening for Routeledge, as it has seemed over the last couple of months that he isn't liked out wide. Been a problem with the lad in the past when it comes to the premiership, but I think the lad would come good if given the confidence and having a decent run in the team. Problem is though he won't get it as Barton has done fantastic out wide.

Guthrie needs to play but only when it it is a 4-5-1 as he can play in the centre and if not needs to be used from the bench. It is a tough one as I want to see the lad get a run out as I think there are goals in him and he will offer us more from the set pieces and his passing his good. As do the toon play a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1.

I would say that at times it is frustrating that CH makes his subs late on, instead of trying to change the game early when it goes on. Only problem though is some managers make subs once they look at the clock. Rafa a prime example, so it can be predicable to the other team. I think at the moment getting a experienced number 2 could be the best signing we make, getting somebody in who knows when to make a change and then strong enough to have the input. As CH seems to have the other skills in the lock up.

Quote:

TOONTILLIDIE
Guthrie needs to play but only when it it is a 4-5-1 as he can play in the centre and if not needs to be used from the bench. It is a tough one as I want to see the lad get a run out as I think there are goals in him and he will offer us more from the set pieces and his passing his good. As do the toon play a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1.

Guthrie has all the talent and work ethic needed to be a top-flight center mid in the mold of what Barry was 2 years ago. He's got a great right foot, some nice ball skills, and a fantastic ability to pick out an open runner down the flank, but right now there's not enough room for him in our squad unless we play the 4-5-1. Nolan is in form and Tiote is too good. Even though Guthrie and Barton are very similar in their abilities, Guthrie struggles out wide, while Barton doesn't. Whether that's a discipline or experience issue I'm not sure, but the point remains that Guthrie doesn't like to be out wide and looks for every reason to cut inside if he can. In a 4-4-2, Guthrie is the odd man out, simple as that.

With regards to the 4-5-1, while a center midfield with Guthrie, Nolan, and Tiote would be strong defensively and offensively, Carroll likes to have runners and plays better in a 4-4-2 then in a 4-5-1. Nolan likewise enjoys having two forwards up front to distract defenders and allow him to make his runs in behind.

I don't think Routledge has been that bad out wide this season, though I know a lot disagree with me. Barton is first option, there's no questioning it, but Routledge shouldn't be #3 unless Ranger, or even Xisco takes over as #2.

The difference between Guthrie & Barton is one of vision. Barton's off-field antics have tarnished his reputation and it's easy to overlook that he's one of the better CMs playing in the PL. He's got great vision and thinks on his feet very well. That's why he can find passes from out wide and doesn't constantly get pulled into the middle of the field.

If it was me I would go for the 4-5-1, as Guthrie plays, and I think potentially we could get more goals whilst conceding less. Guthrie has the vision and passing ability to get it out wide to Barton and Jonas, and with having Tiote playing it enables Nolan to float more, and can make last minute runs. Yes you may get the odd goal less from Carroll, but the way he plays he can hold up the ball and let the others get the extra goal.

4-4-2 only works for me if we get a better forward, as Shola is quite predictable at won't take long for defenders to click what he is doing. Nolan lacks the pace to be able to get up and down the pitch, and at times can leave Tiote exposed

at his best barton also offers greta variety of play, this season he has mixed the angle of attack to great success. our left side looks to stay wide, when barton is on the right he plays the ball to an overlapping fullback as often as he drives infield from deep. its not a fault of guthries that he isnt a replica of barton, i agree that he has a lot to offer. barton appears to be playing the coaches game at the minute, hence the reference to discipline, whereas the short time guthrie has spent on the pitch we have had a tendency to expose simpson (who likes to come out) at the back and lack variety when going forward. its up to the coach as much as the player to put that right, in my opinion