Tranmere Rovers v Swindon Town Match Discussion Thread

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:04:16:31:10 by Deadly Submarine.

I've gone for a 2-1 Tranmere win but I can't say I'm totally convinced by that prediction.

Absolutely terrible.

Martin was awful compared to recent games and his kicking is woeful.

Logan just doesn't give much to the team for me, words can't describe how bad Broomes was and Bakayogo had his worst game for us so far. Goodison was worse than last week but still better than he started the season but he gets no support from the rest of the defence. The other 3 all made stupid passes to him today when he was the wrong option and put him in a difficult situation, some of them just don't think, and thats why we concede, we lose concentration. The first half I thought we played pretty well, some nice football and put lots of pressure on them but again - no goals. We then make two mistakes and concede two goals.

Midfield was shocking again, can't believe McLaren still has a place in the team, why he was brought back I'll never know! Welsh was his usual self, poor. Didn't think Edds was up too much today but what can you do if your a one man midfield?

Disapointed with ITM today (and last week) - the effort and work ethic has disapeared completely. Ricketts is a good footabller but his fitness (or ability to run) just isn't there. Gornell did OK when he came on as did Shuker who actually looked like his old self at one point - he was running at defenders which was nice to see!

Most of you know I'm Currans biggest critic but he's one of the very few that deserve and praise (and his wages!) this week. He works his socks off, OK he's not the best but his passion is immense. When they scored their 3rd, he ran from the halfway line to our goal to get the ball and sprinted back while everyone else just walked around thinking about there Saturday night, thought he was really good today, beginning to think he's also a winger rather than a striker? Could do with toughening up though!

The referee: one of the worst in a while! At 0-0 we had two huge penalty shouts. Craig Curran was practically rugby tackled from running of the ball, but the most blaitent one was the handball, how the blindesman and the referee never seen that between them?!?! In the second half particuarly the linesman on the paddock side was shocking, missed several bad tackles from them and then when Curran made a tackle and won the ball he gave a free-kick, WTF?!?!

Not much of a celebration..

What a wat to celebrate 125 years! We were afwul, clueless and comical, and that is being kind. That lot would not get out of league two, never mind stay in this league. There are so many things wrong its hard where to start. I could mention several poor performances, Broomes and Moore particulary. Butn to be honest I am sick of doing it.

We are going down, Les is not a manager and the new guy has an impossible job. We are cut adrift now and Norwich away could be a cricket score.

Wouldn't say 4 points is cut adrift but with 2 away games coming up it doesn't look good.

from the start I was pleased to see Rickets get a start, and for me looked class, played well if economicalyy, but had to drift wide, both wings ! as again we had no width, Shoker offered some width, tho he's not what he was, and again was wondering, started left wing dropped to the mid then right wing, we eventually got our first corner of the 2nd half, and Rickets had been taken off, can't beleive Fraughny didn't get a run, he was superb mid week.

Ye thats what i mean mikey, I wouldn't expect us to get anything at Norwich even if we were good so that is a write off, and then another away game. By the time we play at home again in the league we could be well off the pack. I am so annoyed by that performance, it really was a joke. Moore shouldn't be captain on that evidence but we have got no leaders.

We are league two bound I'm afraid.

ITM work ethic dissapeared??? you have to be joking i agree he struggled (as did all of them) but he ran and ran and at 34 or whatever he is!!! Ricketts a 5 minute spell and then he was gone, the day he runs will be the day chester win the champions league!

A day to forget BUT to find a positive I think gornell looks like he is turning into a class act, a good first touch and stronger presence I hope he gets a run and becomes our next big player.

We've been League Two bound for weeks but people seemed to think things would pick up the second Barnes left - reality sinking in?

Today I thought the failure to put away chances in our early dominance was the key as it may have been a totally different game thereafter had we done so.

We need two new strikers or something although I have to say that Ian Thomas-Moore just doesn't seem to like/suit 4-3-3 and was the same I think when Ronnie tried it last season.

I thought the Curran shout was never a penalty but there was a handball decision right in front of me second half that looked as obvious as they come.

The defence as a whole were shocking and Broomes had a second shocker in two games. Curran did do OK I agree Mikey and certainly looked up for it as did Terry Gornell when he came on.

A word too for the much criticised Chris Shuker who I thought did really well when he came on today.

I've been saying for a long time that the players just aren't good enough regardless of the Manager in charge - anyone care to disagree with that right now?

There are a certain few who aren't good enough (Broomes, McLaren and Welsh) - the rest are good enough but just can't put chances away. If we could finish we would of won today, after 20 mins we would of been cruising at 3-0.

i think there a few attitude getting in the way, logan, ricketts, mclaren, welsh.

I still think we have a good enough team to get safely away from relegation but a serious shake up in the dressing room in needed.

I think we lack player(s) who have that bit of quality that can change a game. 2 imo who can are shuker/mahon who haven't performed this season so far (shuker did today though!!) I think we need to play these more as tbh I cannot see welsh/curran/mclaren as real game changers. If they do nothing but put in 1 good ball that we get a goal from they have done enough! Would like to see team below tried and very much a 4 5 1 not 4 3 3.

Daniels/Martin

Edds Goodison Broomes Zouma

Shuker Taylor Mclaren Mahon Curran

Gornell/Moore

I agree but not putting chances away has been almost as much of an issue rhis season as the defence (although not quite I admit).

maybe not enough quality changes created? whatever happens now until the end of the season all we can do is get behind ALL the lads/club and do our bit to help, hopefully the players will respond. SUPER WHITE ARMY!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Deadly Submarine
I've gone for a 2-1 Tranmere win but I can't say I'm totally convinced by that prediction.

I was going to respond to this before the game but decided not to.

Les has criticised the players and surely he will have had enough of this.?
They do not warrant your support or your money; they need to go.
Congratultions to Chester and the man who should have been here. But then, Chester may have better players ?

Agree with those backing Shuker and Gornell was very impressed with both of them as subs - beyond any question they were our two best players in the time they came on.

Ricketts looked a pretty good player early on but then faded.

Bakayago looked dreadfull really poor with no positional ability, Logan should be playing in midfield too much of a liability in defence, I'd switch to a 442 again with him and shuker wide.

I'd go

Martin

Edds Goodison Taylor Cresswell
Logan Mahon Welsh Shuker
Gornell Moore

Agreed that Shuker ws good when he came on. Bas Savage is starting to look like a massive miss by the way. But our strikers are a huge problem. Curran's finishing leaves a lot to be desired, Moore has never been prolific and Gornell is unproven. Then you have Ricketts who potentially looks like he could be a handful but is woefully unfit, and Bain has played about 2 minutes. Add that to the fact that the midfielders who play don't create anything, and no goals are coming from then. The only creative midfielder we have got is Mahon.

If that wasn't bad enough Broomes is always going to give teams a chance with his shocking mistakes, so we don't ever look like keeping a clean sheet. Unfortuneately I agree with sub, I feel that whoever the manager is won't be able to keep us up. The quality is not there, today it has hit home for me how bad we actually are.

Get this Les Parry bloke out now he's @#$%&! even more out of his depth than Barnes, im sick of garbage managers running this team, GET HIM OUT NOW

That was an absolute joke of a match today. Before the game we were treated to legends of the club who played for the shirt and I'm sure most of them would be absolutely ashamed because no one out there did today.

Our defence is woeful, I can't believe Broomes is still playing for us he absolutely atrocious, one of the worst defenders I've seen at PP ever. Goodison has completely lost it but what strikes me is that neither play as a unit and that's whats killing us most. I don't think Goodison respects Broomes and that is costing us dear.

They aren't the only ones to blame I must add, I think all the players should be looking at themselves in the mirror because a lot of them really aren't up to the job. There is no point in criticising Les either, he is only doing what he has to do and I'm sure he wants to return to the sponge as much as we all do.

I really hate to say this but unless the new man is given some money to work with we are going down. They will need to rebuild the defence, get a decent defensive midfield player and someone who can get some goals. If he has to work with what he's got then it's league two football for us next year.

Quote:

Ricci
What a wat to celebrate 125 years! We were afwul, clueless and comical, and that is being kind. That lot would not get out of league two, never mind stay in this league. There are so many things wrong its hard where to start. I could mention several poor performances, Broomes and Moore particulary. Butn to be honest I am sick of doing it.
We are going down, Les is not a manager and the new guy has an impossible job. We are cut adrift now and Norwich away could be a cricket score.

Under these circumstances, is it possible to continue to attend matches ? Even if you have a season ticket ?

part time supporters

There is no doubt in my mind we can get out of this mess. I don't believe we need to spend big; we have the players as many have stated above.
It is interesting that there is a bit of a two tier division with the better teams tending to give us a severe problems if we try to attack them so I would not be unduly concerned about yesterdays result.
We need to focus on being very very tight with teams in 8th position and above and very very agressive with teams 8th position and below.
The fact is the team was decimated in the summer and we need to face facts get through the season and rebuild sensibly in May.
I would not replace Les out of necessity, however if a credible alternative became available I would replace him in an instant. I don't believe this would be treating Les badly, he is intelligent enough to know such a decision would be in the interests of the club, and will resume his former duties.
It's not all doom and gloom.
I think tactically we need to understand we cannot get points off the better teams anymore or we will be opened up. Hopefully this lesson will be learned and we can make the Norwich game tight. The game against Orient will be fantastic and is absolutely winnable.

For once, I agree........... it's a miracle.

Nice to hear that Mikey!!!
Let's hope things get better on the pitch.

Can't agree at all I'm afraid Eric.

We've beaten Gillingham who I think have one point on the road this season, Brighton and Wycombe who are bottom - the rest have made easy work of us no matter what position in the League and that includes Yeovil, Stockport and Carlisle.

I always like your points Deadly, however I still believe my central argument is valid. Yes I concede in the case of Carlise we were soundly beaten but at that time our confidence was on the floor.
My central argument is that we have the 'potential' to get 3 points from the majority of the team outside the top 8 if we play agressively. If you look at matches such walsall, exeter, hartlepool, wycombe, bury, stockport and brighton; even not playing with confidence we were competitive in each match. Therefore I believe with confidence and the players we have if we are agreesive those type of games are winnable.
However where we have come unstuck is thinking we are better than we are and playing agressively against the better teams. The clearest examples are Milwall, Leeds and Swindon where we tried to attack but were found too open at the back and therefore got hammered.
To conclude I think 'generally' speaking there is a 2 tier league emerging in terms of quality.
The lessons of the season at this point is 1. We are not as good man for man as last year 2. We cannot expect to pick up points playing as agressively as last year against the better teams 3. We pick up points when we are very very tight against the top 8 (i.e. Colchester) and very very agressive against the teams 8 and below (i.e. Brighton, Gillingham).
I look forward to your reply as I respect what you have to say. I would also be interested in hearing what your strategy would be for the rest of the season in terms of manager and how we should be playing tactically with the resources we have.

Yeah I get what your saying about playing aggressively and do you think perhaps Les had done that to some extent with the 4-3-3 formation?

It just doesn't seem to be working although first 10 minutes yesterday it could have paid off if we'd taken our chances.

As for the new man and strategy I have no idea really and I certainly don't envy the task ahead.

As was said elsewhere yesterday, perhaps the job is even more attractive now as it's a no lose situation for whoever comes in. We go down and damage had already been done but stay up and he's an instant hero!

The last few years the leagues been really tight all the way through, whereas this year I don't think it will be. There are 9 or 10 teams who will run away and everyone else will be scrapping to stay in the division.

We are only 10 pts of 10th position or something, 10 pts isn't a great deal, it can be easily made up at this stage of the season.

We made an average side look good today, they'd gone 4 games without scoring, strikers slated for not performing, just what they needed, play Tranmere and do the confidence a world of good, watch them get amongst the play offs where we had hoped to be. As I've said before we are relegated, there is not a spark of hope in the current squad, my big worry is that people will believe we will do well with this squad in league 2, we won't, we will struggle,Would any of the 'new' players that arrived in the summer have got into last seasons side ....NO!
PJ, much as though I respect the guy made a huge mistake letting Ronnie go, and a bigger mistake bringing JB in as its JB that put this squad together.
We've been here before, we must stop conceding, build from the back, midfield are not protecting the defenders, change the system, 4-5-1, might be boring but we will not concede as many goals. Its a bit like a F1 team, we need to develope for next season, we are stuck with this squad so lets bring in the youngsters so they will be ready next season to challenge in league 2. Les is a legend but no manager, a bit naive, we need to get the new man in place now, this season is lost, I only hope we can do something next season.

Agreed

So your giving up in November when we're only a handful of points away..

We're conceding goals for fun and struggling to score though mate.

We can't do any proper transfers until January either do you have to say it doesn't look good.

I hope your right Mikey I really do.

some very good and interesting points above, as i said on another thread 4-5-1 i think could see us more solid. No doubt norwich away we need to go and park the bus in goal waste time etc... and try and scramble a 0-0 like teams did against us last season. We all need to stick together because when the belief goes that is when we are down.

I strongly dissagree with the mentality that suggests all is lost.
I personally think even with the current squad we're a mid table team.
However I can accept people don't agree with me on that point, but what I cannot accept is that there are not 3 teams worse than us in the division. To concede now would be foolish. To think about building for life in Division 2 in the begining of Nov when we're only 4 points from safety is plain crazy.
Come on everyone don't fall into the trap of being too negative in defeat. We lost, get over it and we go again.

i hate the way sum fans critises certain players an say there not good enough , i think welsh i prob 1 ov our best players believe it or not in league goals hes 1 ov our top scorers , i think the problem is in the attack , ITM an curran can do all the runnin they want but if they dont score , the team will struggle , i think ITM is past it ,so is mclaren , goodison an broomes, we have got 2 start scorin or we will go down 4 defo

Quote:

ian1980trfc
i hate the way sum fans critises certain players an say there not good enough , i think welsh i prob 1 ov our best players believe it or not in league goals hes 1 ov our top scorers , i think the problem is in the attack , ITM an curran can do all the runnin they want but if they dont score , the team will struggle , i think ITM is past it ,so is mclaren , goodison an broomes, we have got 2 start scorin or we will go down 4 defo

Not hypocritical at all.

if john welsh is one of our best players we are stuffed!!! the guy can't pick a pass to save his life! But not just him the rest have to lift their game.

Also for once i agree with eric 100%.Positive people!!!!!!

the thing that got to me yesterday was that Les left Ryan and Ash on the bench, they'd have made a differance in that game, and after Fraughnys game mid week I thought he'd shown he is the type of player to make a differance in the middle, settling the game, making the passes and shooting !

Have to agree there. We should at least have seen Taylor at some point.

What clown puts a physio in charge of a team? The muppet that is Peter Johnson, thats who! Anyone who supports this idiot Les Parry hasnt a clue. Get him out the door pronto and he can take that pillock with him.

Is it just me or were we lucky to get our goal? It looked like Bakayogo stepped over the line with his throw in.

This is a good thread. In response to an early thread from Sub about people thinking it would get better as soon as Barnes went - I don't really think that was the case. We were never going to go from that poor run to winning matches instantly and I'm not sure that many fans thought we would.

ImTopMan - I actually cannot believe your criticism of Les, calling him an idiot. We sacked Barnes and he was, in my opinion brave enough to accept the challenge in the interim. When you talk about taking the pillock with him, who are you referring to? Garnett or Chief?

Les and Shaun have been superb servants for this club for over 20 years, within various roles i.e. manager, coach, physio, player etc and to slate them like you have is incomprehendable.

I agree with Eric, as fans we need to get behind whoever comes in and hope that they can pull us out of this. I remember Ronnie Moore talking about players last season and he was saying how being managed by someone else can have a huge impact on players who may not have performed at other clubs. I think he was actually talking about Kay and saying that sometimes it takes a move or change in personnel for someone to achieve their potential. There are some players who haven't been at the races this season, but a new manager could change that.

Very interesting thread though.....

Matty-1985, The pillock is Peter 'waste of space' Johnson of course. This clowns meddling got TRFC into this holy mess. Getting shut of RM and acquiring the services of the hapless Barnes, then getting rid and giving the Job to A PHYSIO must rank alongside the worst descions of all time, and not just in football.

Johnson won't go unless he sells the club mate. Also, Les is here until we find a new manager and then he'll return to his usual duties - I just think it was a bit harsh considering the service Les has gioven the club.

Totally agree Matt. Les not only deserves massive respect for the years he has put into Tranmere but only for his courage in taking on a role where he has put his reputation on the line for the benefit of the club.
Les is a great man!!!!!!

hypicritical,,, were livin on past it players , the worst think was bringin these players back, we are goin backwards , ok welsh maybe not pickin passes out but he has nothin else 2 work with , the strikers carnt say there not gettin service , they must have at least 2 to 3 chances a game EACH, myself i think if we go down we wont come back up , welsh , logan , curran an a couple others will leave ,we havent got money 2 spend 2 replace them ,no1 was slatin welsh when he scored the goal last week , talk about fans supportin the club , what do certain fans ov this club support coz it isnt the club !! players will go , we will go down then who will certain fans blame then

You said you hate the way fans criticise certain players then said went on and criticised certain players..

Which he kind of just did again in the latest post too to be honest.

say what ever u like they are past it , hope we get out this mess but its not lookin good, people blame defence an midfield , what about attack , i wish he wud drop ITM, play a youngster or gamble an throw a big man up there an go long , we need 2 scrap games out an with old age pensioners its lookin bad ! sum fans are goin off what we did last season an exept the same this season , no chance were not good enough , league 2 baby!!!!

Nope I would agree some players are past it, namely McLaren and Broomes, difference is I don't moan at people for singling players out and then do it myself.

Quote:

ImTopMan
Matty-1985, The pillock is Peter 'waste of space' Johnson of course. This clowns meddling got TRFC into this holy mess.

His meddling got us to Wembley five times in three years, kept us in business and in the Football League and took us within a hare's breath of the Premiership.

His meddling got us to Wembley five times in three years, kept us in business and in the Football League and took us within a hare's breath of the Premiership.[/quote]Yes, but that was all years ago, he's served his purpose so get rid and lets get some fresh idea's into the club, not someone which appoints a bleedin' physio as a manager. Get a Grip.

A physio who will give his all for the club he loves and has watched many good managers here over the years. He's not exactly walking into it blind you know..

Besides it's only short term, get off his back, I have doubts your a Tranmere fan, calling Les an idiot as well, how about you get a grip..

Quote:

ImTopMan
he's served his purpose so get rid and lets get some fresh idea's into the club, not someone which appoints a bleedin' physio as a manager. Get a Grip.

My initial response is two words - Nigel Adkins.

Secondly, the only way we can get rid is if someone buys his very large shareholding and pays off his debt. If you're so keen on getting rid, nip down to HSBC tomorrow and take out a £7.1m loan to cover all of that and buy him out.

Quote:

Mikey
A physio who will give his all for the club he loves and has watched many good managers here over the years. He's not exactly walking into it blind you know..
Besides it's only short term, get off his back, I have doubts your a Tranmere fan, calling Les an idiot as well, how about you get a grip..

He's an idiot for taking the job when he's just a physio, he should have refused to make sure someone like Garnett got asked. We were a laughing stock with Barnes, and Joker Johnson's actions has made TRFC look an even bigger one.

It also put him in a position to take over Everton, make a big profit from that, leave us with the Corfe affair to protect his stake in Tranmere and spend a decade crippled by the debts the club owe him.He is abusinessman and not aJack Walker type benefactor.His recent decisons have been harmful to the club and because of his control we cannot even seek a new start through administration.All the positives of the first PJ period hold true but negatives also have to be set against it.The balance is currently in his favour but it continues to tip in the opposite direction

Quote:

ImTopMan
He's an idiot for taking the job when he's just a physio

Go and speak to a Scunthorpe fan

is it a possibility that garnett turnet the job down??

Quote:

rovers125
is it a possibility that garnett turnet the job down??

Do you really think Garnett would have turned down the chance to steady the ship because i dont. Im not arsed how much this parry loves the club etc, he shouldn't be runnng the team, the results are bad as under Barnes.

I think he would of turned it down. He has a youth side to concentrate on primarily, hence the arrival of Chief really.

"this parry" you are clearly either not a trfc fan or just someone who talks out of his ass. climb back into your hole.

LES PARRYS BARMY ARMY!!!!!!!!

Quote:

cadburygorilla
"this parry" you are clearly either not a trfc fan or just someone who talks out of his ass. climb back into your hole.
LES PARRYS BARMY ARMY!!!!!!!!

You can only be barmy backing Parry as manager, your sort of ambition will see us in the 'hole' of league 2 come next May.What you know about football you could write on the back of a stamp.

Your knowledge wouldn't be worth the stamp its written on.

Parry is CARETAKER Manager. How you can't back someone who's in charge for a handful of games I don't know.

being honest from what you've said I don't think you ever know what football is! Les/Shaun/Chief are the management team and from what I understand it is very much that 3 man team managing us.

Les is a true legend at this club which you probably dont know! I will back him 110% whatever happens.

The way your talking all this@#$%&I'm thinking your a LFC fan. gobshite!

Quote:

cadburygorilla
being honest from what you've said I don't think you ever know what football is! Les/Shaun/Chief are the management team and from what I understand it is very much that 3 man team managing us.
Les is a true legend at this club which you probably dont know! I will back him 110% whatever happens.

The way your talking all this@#$%&I'm thinking your a LFC fan. gobshite!

If Barnes was still here getting the same results as Parry the likes of you would be on here with your crying+whinging yet LP gets away with coz he "loves the club". And when people like you resort to insults I KNOW ive won the argument.

Les has to live off the **** Barnes left behind though, and until we get a few loanee's in it won't change that much.

That said, excluding Saturday there's been a massive upturn in the performances.

So we've ended up bottom of league one with no hope and 6 odd million in debt and future of clubs exiatance in trouble... were the couple of play off defeats worth it? Now pj wants his money back after it all failed?
Don't get me wrong this top man pleb is on another planet givin parry grief but we don't all think the sun shines out of pj's backside like u drips either.

Quote:

SuperWhiteSoldier
So we've ended up bottom of league one with no hope and 6 odd million in debt and future of clubs exiatance in trouble... were the couple of play off defeats worth it? Now pj wants his money back after it all failed?
Don't get me wrong this top man pleb is on another planet givin parry grief but we don't all think the sun shines out of pj's backside like u drips either.

You might be happy with the club/team run by people out of there depths but i wont stand for it. Can anyone explain Parrys tactics on saturday? I couldnt and we were destroyed. My point is if Barnes had been in charge he would have been crippled on here by the same 'fans' who defend this parry bloke.

parry is doing better, if not just aswell, as a man who has managed an international football team, celtic, and with undoubtably one of the best football brains around! PARRY IS NOT A MANAGER!! would you expect john barnes to have been a world class physio if he had to step in to that role for a few months?? NO! so why do u exect parry to make the transition so easily? especially with the bag of shite he has got towork with!! he is trying his best and the fact there seems to be no friction in the side after everything which has gone on is a credit to him!

then again, you are top man so u must be right!!