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Think we’re down
Posted by: Zint (IP Logged)
Date: 03 June, 2020 21:00

We don’t deserve it, but can’t see how we are not?

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Hampshire White (IP Logged)
Date: 03 June, 2020 21:21

Unfortunately, I agree. What makes it worse, is that I have two AFC Wimbledon supporters as neighbours. "Happy Days all round" Not....

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: mill park white (IP Logged)
Date: 03 June, 2020 21:27

Agree we are down. But not sure I quite agree with the "dont deserve it" claim. We are in the bottom 3 on merit, only won 8 games, been rubbish most of the season, and have quite a few players who are out of their depth in league 1.
We will bounce back next season with a stronger squad, that will win promotion and subsequently thrive in Div 1.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Crazylegs Cranebird (IP Logged)
Date: 03 June, 2020 21:40

Quote:
mill park white
Agree we are down. But not sure I quite agree with the "dont deserve it" claim. We are in the bottom 3 on merit, only won 8 games, been rubbish most of the season, and have quite a few players who are out of their depth in league 1.
We will bounce back next season with a stronger squad, that will win promotion and subsequently thrive in Div 1.

I disagree. With the improved squad (particularly Ellis, Clarke, Woodyard and Vaughan) and the strong form - WWW - we were on route to pull clear

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Embo (IP Logged)
Date: 03 June, 2020 21:53

I understand trying to convince yourself we deserve relegation could be your way of dealing with it, but surely you know what you're saying is nonsensical? Practically a third of the season still to play, just 3 points from safety, on a run of 3 straight wins, due to go to the likes of wimbledon and rochdale - games we would have been very confident of winning seeing as we had just beaten better teams than them away from home.

Did you think we deserved to go up that season under ronnie moore when we were top after 31 games played? We finished 11th.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)
Date: 03 June, 2020 22:03

Quote:
Zint
We don’t deserve it, but can’t see how we are not?

+1

No self abasement here, it's wrong.

I'm not having it that you can call time before a race is finished and give out the medals on where everyone was at when it stopped. Yes we've found it tough in the three quarters of the season we've been allowed to play but so have Wimbledon and others. Nobody deserves to be sent down by 0.04 of a point with ten games still to play.

The old re-election was mocked because of the old pals act but this is worse. Back then you voted whether to demote a club that finished bottom 4. This time you can vote to escape your own relegation battle without kicking a ball and demote a club that hasn't finished bottom 3. It's wrong on every level.

Apparently there are a few proposals going to the vote next week. Haven't seen what the others say. A split vote amongst the dissenters should see the EFL's own proposal romp home.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2020 22:05 by Aldo'smuzzy.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: TimmySoft (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 08:02

I do think we deserve the right to play for our survival, but at the same time, I think we’ve been a poor league 1 side up until the last three matches.

I think a sensible a streamlined rebuild for a league 2 campaign would be a good thing. We need some experienced prime players, guys between 24-29, who can stay fit and more importantly keep the ball on our new pitch.

I’d love to see us competing at the top of L2 for most of the season, although I think it’ll be a much tougher fight than most of us think

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: BELMONT (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 10:10

Think I'd rather regroup in League One next season than drop out of it this we we're the form team in the last five games.

Nobody should go down with ten games still to play when there are at least three teams just above us who could be caught, as for Southend and Bolton they are down whether its PPG or play the games.

Should just relegate two and promote 3 or 4 for one season and return to 24 teams at the end of next season.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Crazylegs Cranebird (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 10:54

Quote:
BELMONT
Think I'd rather regroup in League One next season than drop out of it this we we're the form team in the last five games.
Nobody should go down with ten games still to play when there are at least three teams just above us who could be caught, as for Southend and Bolton they are down whether its PPG or play the games.

Should just relegate two and promote 3 or 4 for one season and return to 24 teams at the end of next season.

We are all agreed with that, but unless, miraculously, the vote of Chairmen representing football starved fans is to play on with IFollow then its not going to happen.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Crazylegs Cranebird (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 10:56

Quote:
Aldo'smuzzy
Quote:
Zint
We don’t deserve it, but can’t see how we are not?

+1

No self abasement here, it's wrong.

I'm not having it that you can call time before a race is finished and give out the medals on where everyone was at when it stopped. Yes we've found it tough in the three quarters of the season we've been allowed to play but so have Wimbledon and others. Nobody deserves to be sent down by 0.04 of a point with ten games still to play.

The old re-election was mocked because of the old pals act but this is worse. Back then you voted whether to demote a club that finished bottom 4. This time you can vote to escape your own relegation battle without kicking a ball and demote a club that hasn't finished bottom 3. It's wrong on every level.

Apparently there are a few proposals going to the vote next week. Haven't seen what the others say. A split vote amongst the dissenters should see the EFL's own proposal romp home.

.. or the play-on vote romps home

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Doogie'sGhost (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 11:14

Quote:
Aldo'smuzzy
Quote:
Zint
We don’t deserve it, but can’t see how we are not?

+1

No self abasement here, it's wrong.

I'm not having it that you can call time before a race is finished and give out the medals on where everyone was at when it stopped. Yes we've found it tough in the three quarters of the season we've been allowed to play but so have Wimbledon and others. Nobody deserves to be sent down by 0.04 of a point with ten games still to play.

The old re-election was mocked because of the old pals act but this is worse. Back then you voted whether to demote a club that finished bottom 4. This time you can vote to escape your own relegation battle without kicking a ball and demote a club that hasn't finished bottom 3. It's wrong on every level.

Apparently there are a few proposals going to the vote next week. Haven't seen what the others say. A split vote amongst the dissenters should see the EFL's own proposal romp home.
I am worried about a split vote too, but hopefully the chairmen will see sense and get behind one proposal or at least not allow a stop playing proposal to win out for lack of agreement.

For those saying we don't deserve to stay up, you are right - to an extent - but the season is scheduled to be 46 games although this was immediately curtailed due to Bury. Our clear strategy for the last 5 years under MP has been to significantly strengthen at the end of January for the run in. That strategy was formulated on a certain season length and has quite clearly borne fruit for the last few seasons. (I'm a little surprised no one has analysed our post Jan vs pre Jan form to be fair, if they have I have missed it). It's like telling people they are running a 3 lap race then stopping it after 2 and forecasting that you would stay in the same position. Sorry, you were saving yourself for the last lap? Tough luck.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Bored rover (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 13:04

I’m not so sure we are down for yet, but I have to agree with others we are in the bottom 3 on merit, it can’t be argued any other way, we would have to win our game in hand by a 10 goal margin to climb out of the bottom 3. It’s not to say it’s fair we are relegated but it’s also not unfair and unfortunately life isn’t fair. Let’s look back to last season and our position at this time, we were out of the play offs the board had invested in the team for a final push, had this been this time last season we would be baying for the playoffs to be completed with us included. We would be citing it fair because those in the bottom 4 were losers who had lost all season.

There is no guarantee what so ever we would have survived this season even having won 3 on the bounce, it’s even less probable to suggest we would stay up if games restarted. Survival yes it’s more likely than 3 games earlier but games to play do not amount to points in the bank. Good players do not amount to a good side and vice versa.

I also take with a pinch of salt what the board says in relation to rejecting a restart due to others finances, I think moreover we can’t afford to restart and to admit as such would undermine further our proposal to save us without playing on. Let’s keep our finances in focus here, we had a collection to fix a roof leak, we required investment to pay off debt, we required further investment to mend one of the basic requirements of a football club, the pitch. We had to wait until January to make signings many of which were on loan for a push at survival and rely on a cup run money to do this. These are not the actions of a club stood fast financially to weather a storm such as playing games without income. If I’m right we aren’t in over our heads at this level and should embrace competing for promotion at a lower less expensive level. If I am wrong then the board are even more to blame for not making this player investment in July meaning we would likely not Ben having this debate.

Without doubt if we are determined to survive we should absolutely be voting to play on irrelevant of other clubs financial circumstances and whilst we do not I only see our proposal as hypocrisy as will others. We know the way out of this is to play on so we should vote for it. Other clubs finance is not our concern as our survival is not theirs.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Crazylegs Cranebird (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 13:07

Quote:
Bored rover
I’m not so sure we are down for yet, but I have to agree with others we are in the bottom 3 on merit, it can’t be argued any other way, we would have to win our game in hand by a 10 goal margin to climb out of the bottom 3. It’s not to say it’s fair we are relegated but it’s also not unfair and unfortunately life isn’t fair. Let’s look back to last season and our position at this time, we were out of the play offs the board had invested in the team for a final push, had this been this time last season we would be baying for the playoffs to be completed with us included. We would be citing it fair because those in the bottom 4 were losers who had lost all season.
There is no guarantee what so ever we would have survived this season even having won 3 on the bounce, it’s even less probable to suggest we would stay up if games restarted. Survival yes it’s more likely than 3 games earlier but games to play do not amount to points in the bank. Good players do not amount to a good side and vice versa.

I also take with a pinch of salt what the board says in relation to rejecting a restart due to others finances, I think moreover we can’t afford to restart and to admit as such would undermine further our proposal to save us without playing on. Let’s keep our finances in focus here, we had a collection to fix a roof leak, we required investment to pay off debt, we required further investment to mend one of the basic requirements of a football club, the pitch. We had to wait until January to make signings many of which were on loan for a push at survival and rely on a cup run money to do this. These are not the actions of a club stood fast financially to weather a storm such as playing games without income. If I’m right we aren’t in over our heads at this level and should embrace competing for promotion at a lower less expensive level. If I am wrong then the board are even more to blame for not making this player investment in July meaning we would likely not Ben having this debate.

Without doubt if we are determined to survive we should absolutely be voting to play on irrelevant of other clubs financial circumstances and whilst we do not I only see our proposal as hypocrisy as will others. We know the way out of this is to play on so we should vote for it. Other clubs finance is not our concern as our survival is not theirs.

Agreed. No guarantee we would have survived - but we had a reasonable chance based on our winning sequence bettered only by Oxford

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Bored rover (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 13:08

Quote:
Aldo'smuzzy
Quote:
Zint
We don’t deserve it, but can’t see how we are not?

+1

No self abasement here, it's wrong.

I'm not having it that you can call time before a race is finished and give out the medals on where everyone was at when it stopped. Yes we've found it tough in the three quarters of the season we've been allowed to play but so have Wimbledon and others. Nobody deserves to be sent down by 0.04 of a point with ten games still to play.

The old re-election was mocked because of the old pals act but this is worse. Back then you voted whether to demote a club that finished bottom 4. This time you can vote to escape your own relegation battle without kicking a ball and demote a club that hasn't finished bottom 3. It's wrong on every level.

Apparently there are a few proposals going to the vote next week. Haven't seen what the others say. A split vote amongst the dissenters should see the EFL's own proposal romp home.

On the end a race before the end, it happens in athletics my old sport it’s in the rules. Championship medals can be issued based on qualification times if a final has to be cancelled. We also operate a system whereby in Olympic semi finals you can fail to qualify in your heat but run quicker than and also have a superior PB to someone who qualifies for the final in the other heat. UKA also make team selections based on performances in passed seasons therefore a contender can be quickest this season and not qualify because someone was quicker last aside form the fact the fitness does not necessarily carry over.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Bored rover (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 13:14

Quote:
Crazylegs Cranebird
Quote:
Bored rover
I’m not so sure we are down for yet, but I have to agree with others we are in the bottom 3 on merit, it can’t be argued any other way, we would have to win our game in hand by a 10 goal margin to climb out of the bottom 3. It’s not to say it’s fair we are relegated but it’s also not unfair and unfortunately life isn’t fair. Let’s look back to last season and our position at this time, we were out of the play offs the board had invested in the team for a final push, had this been this time last season we would be baying for the playoffs to be completed with us included. We would be citing it fair because those in the bottom 4 were losers who had lost all season.
There is no guarantee what so ever we would have survived this season even having won 3 on the bounce, it’s even less probable to suggest we would stay up if games restarted. Survival yes it’s more likely than 3 games earlier but games to play do not amount to points in the bank. Good players do not amount to a good side and vice versa.

I also take with a pinch of salt what the board says in relation to rejecting a restart due to others finances, I think moreover we can’t afford to restart and to admit as such would undermine further our proposal to save us without playing on. Let’s keep our finances in focus here, we had a collection to fix a roof leak, we required investment to pay off debt, we required further investment to mend one of the basic requirements of a football club, the pitch. We had to wait until January to make signings many of which were on loan for a push at survival and rely on a cup run money to do this. These are not the actions of a club stood fast financially to weather a storm such as playing games without income. If I’m right we aren’t in over our heads at this level and should embrace competing for promotion at a lower less expensive level. If I am wrong then the board are even more to blame for not making this player investment in July meaning we would likely not Ben having this debate.

Without doubt if we are determined to survive we should absolutely be voting to play on irrelevant of other clubs financial circumstances and whilst we do not I only see our proposal as hypocrisy as will others. We know the way out of this is to play on so we should vote for it. Other clubs finance is not our concern as our survival is not theirs.

Agreed. No guarantee we would have survived - but we had a reasonable chance based on our winning sequence bettered only by Oxford

Absolutely we did have a chance, but that’s all it is if we play on, a chance. We should be fighting to play on, if we can’t afford to let’s just say it in which case we have to take the decided punishment for what our finances won’t allow. If we can afford it and we vote for and it’s rejected that’s a little harsh and we can only hope for an outcome we would accept as a club and fans and not necessarily a fair one as others may see it fair we are relegated others may not. If we go down we will all still turn up and we will compete again when finances allow post crisis and hopefully enjoy more Wembley glory.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: DevonExile (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 13:27

It is not about whether we or any other team deserves to be relegated. .It is about whether this is an appropriate way to determine who is relegated. It is an arbitrary decision made after any club has the capacity to change the outcome on the field of play. Once play offs where seen as acceptable it should not have been beyond wit to find a way of relegation being determined on the pitch.
I have.never thought that there was anything anti Rovers about the decision. It is just a lazy and unimaginative way of finding a solution. Yet it is also true, that if we had been one place higher few of us would be raising any objections.
The fact that we were in the relegation zone,was however,down to some poor recuitment last summer. It will need to better this year if we are to bounce back

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 13:30

Here we go, not only more self abasement but a conspiracy theory on top, and now the owners are hypocrites too if they don't back a loser. FFS.

PPG is fatally flawed. Palios' proposal mitigates those fatal flaws. But it's a conversation that shouldn't even be happening. Here's what the FA said in a letter to one MP back in April, justifying why nul and void sank PPG in non league: "fundamentally it is critical to try and preserve the integrity of competition within the leagues by not predicting outcomes at a point where the season had not been completed."

Interesting to see how the FA square this circle when they sign off the EFL's proposal after it gets voted in. Though they probably won't even bother.

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Crazylegs Cranebird (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 14:49

Quote:
Aldo'smuzzy
Here we go, not only more self abasement but a conspiracy theory on top, and now the owners are hypocrites too if they don't back a loser. FFS.
PPG is fatally flawed. Palios' proposal mitigates those fatal flaws. But it's a conversation that shouldn't even be happening. Here's what the FA said in a letter to one MP back in April, justifying why nul and void sank PPG in non league: "fundamentally it is critical to try and preserve the integrity of competition within the leagues by not predicting outcomes at a point where the season had not been completed."

Interesting to see how the FA square this circle when they sign off the EFL's proposal after it gets voted in. Though they probably won't even bother.

That FA statement needs broadcasting from the rooftops AM!

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 15:06

Here's the link. It was the FA's response to an enquiry from Alex Cunningham MP, which either he or someone else then put on Twitter: [twitter.com]

Re: Think we’re down
Posted by: Pitou (IP Logged)
Date: 04 June, 2020 23:38

sadly said we were down after the Bolton performance and turned out to be vital in the end plus the other games we had needless suspension. like Bristol rovers and many more this season

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