League Split Needs Answers
By Robert Stock
January 10 2009
With the Welsh Premier set to split into two the season after next, I discuss the vital issues that have yet to be properly discussed and decided on.
'I left with more questions than answers' was NEWI Cefn Druids' Chairman, Brian Mackie's response following his attendance of a league meeting to discuss the proposal to split the Welsh Premier into two divisions from 2010-11 last week.
This article will attempt to discuss what these questions are and debate the way forward. Few would argue that the Welsh Premier needs change. Attendances are still little better than when the league was created over 15 years ago with club's receiving a level of funding that leaves most surviving on the very brink of extinction.
Culled and forgotten?
The FAW's answer is to rid the top division of 8 clubs to create a 'super 10' league with a Division 2 created to feed into it. Undoubtedly the lucky 10 who make the cut could well see an improvement in attendances and their finances, but it's only when you consider how the cull will effect teams relegated to the second division that you discover just how little thought appears to have been put into their fortunes.
Brian Mackie claims that at the metting 'No assurances were given to these clubs as to funding for Academies, sponsorship money or league set up.' Unsurprisingly, these are questions that chairmen need answering, and probably assumed would have been answered by now when they voted unaminously in favour of the proposal last year.
Hasty Decisions
Porthmadog secretary, Gerallt Owen, has also voiced his club's growing concerns over the proposal this week. 'We all stupidly agreed to this dramatic change without any chance to think it through properly and in most cases without proper consultation within the clubs.' It certainly is frustrating that these concerns were not more strongly voiced during that meeting last year.
The Lucky 10
Most would agree that the make up of the super 10 will be a fairly straightforward affair, and most probably would include the following 9 teams, leaving just one team to fight it out for the final place:
Aberystwyth Town
Bangor City
Carmarthen Town
Haverfordwest County
Llanelli
Newtown
Port Talbot Town
Rhyl
The New Saints
Leftovers
So what of Division 2? That is a question that appears to have been completely overlooked, yet is just, if not more, important if the 'Super 10' is not to become a closed shop.
Many clubs are in favour of regionalising the second tier in order to increase attendances and reduce travelling costs. This would seem a sensible approach, but one which would still leave a number of questions:
How many teams will be in each league?
How will promotion/relegation to and from the super 10 be arranged?
Which Cymru Alliance/Welsh League teams will join Division 2 and how will that be decided?
What will happen to the leagues below Division 2 and how will they be arranged?
Firm Foundations
If a domestic league pyramid is to be strong then it undoubtedly needs solid foundations, and if the Division 2 teams were left financially worse off than before the split then how will this benefit Welsh football?
With just 18 months remaining until the proposal is steamrollered in, it is vital that the FAW are honest and transparent over their plans for Division 2. A well funded and structured second tier could still be achieved.
Double Split?
It is my opinion that the division should be split into two leagues of 10 clubs, a Division 2 North and South. This would ensure that clubs reduce travelling expanses and increase the number of derbies they play each season which would hopefully be reflected in the attendances. It would also ensure that only the better, and more ambitious teams from the Cymru Alliance and Welsh League would join.
Hopefully the coming months will see these questions answered. There's little doubt that what is decided could make or break the entire domestic pyramid, so the next 18 months could be the most vital in the history of Welsh football.
Robert Stock
Quotes from www.cefndruidsafc.co.uk and www.welsh-premier.com
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As my article states, I think change is needed, I just have serious doubts that any thought whatsoever has been put into Division 2 by the FAW!
The League will attract better players and bigger crowds.
It's already not a true national league and this just excludes at least half of the few people that actually have an interest in it.
Stupid. Half-baked. Greedy. Part of a power trip for administrators and chairmen.
A few clubs will get a bit richer but will spend it all and risk ruining themselves. The people of Wales will still watch Swansea, Cardiff and the Premiership.
Put me down as "against". :-)
We had three options before us , these were ;
1),, From Porthmadog FC . To re-vote on the whole proposal , in effect an opportunity to vote against.
2).. From Gap Connah's Quay .Proposed by me . To create a Regionalised Second Division of 10 clubs (North ) and (South) to feed into the Super 10.
3).. From the Managment Board . To adopt the proposal of a top Division of 10 and a Second Division of 10.
Option 3 was the proposal with Options 1 and 2 as ammendments.
Opition 1 fell without a seconder .
Option 2 floundered because of the concerns of the Mid Wales sides that they might be put into a Southern Second Division because of the impossibility of finding 10 applicants in the South.It also went un-seconded.
That meant that Option three went forward unanimously as the final position of the WPL and its clubs.
Subject to ratification from the F.A. of Wales we will have two divisions of 10 clubs for the start of the 2010/11 season.
These will be the best placed 10 to get an F,A.W Club Domestic License . The meeting was told that on current criteria only seven were likely to achieve that this year. I can confirm that Gap Connah's Quay will certainly make the grading next year and we will be in Super 10.
dont count your chickens.
i'm massively concerned about this whole thing as every club should be.
I dont know how much you all know about licensing . Its a massive undertaking to get even a Domestic Club License and costs a fortune. To get one you have to have a manager with at least an A license. (most in our league have , but a fair few havent). You have to have a range of off field facilities including permenant office . Drug testing room , medical room , press facilities et al. The players have to have ECG and ECGraphs ( circa £200 per player ) . The books have to be up to date and accurate. Theres loads more.
The WPL have said that they think only sevenof the leagues clubs will get a license this year.Next year it will be the top ten to get a license who get into Super 10. Some big names will have to start out in the second tier whilst they get their infa structure right.
We at Connah's Quay are indeed hoping to develope a new ground. We have the site , We have a leisure industry partner and we have the blueprint . We just need to complete the Legal niceties over long term rights and then to see out the recession before we can get started. 2015 at the earliest I think.
Trev
the WP could get iteslf into a situation if druids, Airbus and CQN all fullfill the opff field and licensing criteria we'd have one third of the "Super 10" with attendances way below the 200 mark.
now that would surely signal the death knoll for domestic welsh football within three years?
Isn't it a shame, that the fate of a club of Bangor's stature, be determined by criteria. Isn't it a shame that year after year WPL clubs have to spend thousands of pounds to jump over the next hurdle to attain these objectives. Isn't a shame that very few of the people that make the Welsh system work, to the degree that it does, actually get paid. Average crowds of what? Since the year dot, any talented local youth has had to be transported by their family if they are priveleged enough to own a car , to Bangor,Wrexham,Swansea, cardif,seriously priveleged enough to afford the time and money to go to Liverpool ,Manchester,Blackburn or Tranmere in this area. No regional academies, No centres of excellence. The Welsh system has failed to deliver for decades. If they had been a political party they would have been out voted long ago. 10+10 regional, National or otherwise, ELITISM at it's worst. For a nation that has fought elitism for centuries,we are dying on our sword.
Quote:ioio
the Nomads motion was the right one. Incredible that no club seconded it.
Hmmm, of the options voted on it was 2nd best, but I can't help but think anyone who went for it would have been voting for something for the sake of it, in the absence of anything useful (option 1 was the correct answer).
Nobody has patience to let the league develop naturally. Too many people are scared to admit that it's not a national league anyway with almost no interest from the biggest cities in the country (let in reserve teams from Swansea and Cardiff). Chairmen and football "administrators" are playing power/ego games.
10 years time... more money in the league, slightly better standards though many clubs will spend more and still be on their @#$%& and still no interest from Wales as a whole.
Well played, WP!
best option would have been
1) 14 team Premier League so that we didn't have to play each other 4 times per year.
2) Compensate for the 8 league games lost thro a good Celtic Cup - first rounds being domestic til QF
3) Lobby UEFA to get the big 3, quite big 1, modest Merthyr and Tiddler Bay back into the Welsh Cup
4) Quid pro quo the 14 Welsh Premier Clubs in English FA Cup also
5) League 1 North and League 1 South of 10 clubs each for whom the 4 games played against each other each year would at least be reasonably local. Enough finance on offer so that 10 clubs with ambition were found north and south.
6) League Cup for the 34 clubs' Under-23 teams (maybe allowing 3 over-age players
7) Proper Marketing Package with Welsh, Irish and Scottish media and sponsors.
Too many obstacles, too much like hard work to organise for those in the cosy world which Mike describes accurately, so would never get a seconder - not even on this Board !
Mike's a bit like Marx. Agree totally with his analysis of current woes. It's the path (or lack of it) for the future which is a bit dodgy.
btw - like CB, good to hear from you again.
btw2 - This Board's been running a fortnight now; how come mike and Cb haven't had a run-in yet ?
like what the rugby lads have done.
some of those clubs who might go back to england would probably end up back in the welsh system within a season or three anyway.
Darwin called it natural selection.
everybody makes their own choice so therefore everybody should be happy.
Footie is different especially for the clubs who have had more success and better times in England. It won't be long before there is a European League where all the big rich teams will play in a 12/14/16 or even 18 league. You can see it coming. Domestic football in England will change , in fact it will change in europe and at the end of the day why can't a club play where they want?
1) Anglo-Welsh rugby cup being scrapped next year
2) In footie, the danger very much is that commercialism will ensure a super-league, relegation of all national leagues to second-class status, thereby no proper representative european cups and possible relegation of national competitions. It's the nightmare scenario
Barry bought a few titles, TNS did, others may in the future. Fly-by-night clubs have come and gone. Some will be back. It all works out in time.
Everyone wants to meddle but no good solution has emerged. You don't do something for the sake of it. Leave it alone.
Too late! This "solution" will be the ruin of some 2nd tier clubs and won't help the top tier very much at all (and will allow some of them to ruin themselves more effectively).
The things that need to be addressed were to make it a genuine national league by letting in reserve teams from Swansea, Cardiff, Wrexham and whoever else wants in. It's not a national league now anyway. Not even close.
One of them was on one thread I'm sure.
Thatcher was all for that as well.
Anyway, I'm up north to watch the mighty Port. That bit of homework should keep you going for a while.
I recall you got all squirmy and refused to discuss politics on this site.
Now you are asking the questions!
Bit of harmless fun when he reads it when he gets in about 2am
You are right tho - best keep it to footie so forgive me for not responding
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:01:17:17:39:57 by AngleseyBlue.
Some photos of the game @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomosl/sets/72157612628161617/
Quote:AngleseyBlue
The fact that Welsh teams will start their European campaigns in June from this summer
Hopefully Rhyl won't start til July
Laissez-faire thinking in Welsh football?! Oh God, it doesn't bear thinking about. Clubs should not have too much power.
PS And I got in at noon next day, not 2am. An awesome night out, though the extra pain in my broken foot suggests otherwise. LOL