Capello----Just another numpty?

What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.

I would love an English manager with his tactical Brain,

But it does make me think if we have the team to go with it..?

The problem is Lampard and Gerrard dont work as a partnership because they are too similar. Unfortunately for Stevie, Lampard is purely a central midfielder so Gerrard gets shunted about to either wing as successive England managers have known you cant play the two together but you cant afford to leave either out. If England had a quality defensive midfielder or a World Class striker then you could adjust your formation to suit the pair but unfortunately England have neither so I think it is a major problem and one that could hamstring England come a tournament.

Your seriously suggesting that it is purely because Gerrard doesnt play well for england that we dont succeed?

Or that he doesnt get what he wants?

Your seriously saying that if Gerrard was put in his proper position then england would win the world cup no danger?

GMRR what im saying is England have been blessed with best player in the world yet manage to play him out of position . They fail time and again to get the best use out of him .If the team was built around Gerrard the chances of winning the world cup would be much greater.

GMRR what im saying is England have been blessed with best player in the world yet manage to play him out of position
__________________________

Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Ronaldo or Kaka dont play for England

__________________________

They fail time and again to get the best use out of him .If the team was built around Gerrard the chances of winning the world cup would be much greater.
__________________________

You could say that about any player in Englands best starting X1, Every player in our best X1 is the best player in the respective position for their team

We could build the team around Rooney, Just as United do

We could build the team around Defoe, Just as Spurs do

We could build the team around Lampard, As Chelsea do

We could build the team around Beckham, As Galaxy do

We could do the same with Gerrard but a truly great player should be able to do it wherever he is asked to play

Rooney was pushed out left for us for the remainder of last season and adapted to it well, sacrificed his own chances for the sake of the team

I think its because Gerrard doesnt score enough or create enough for England that has lead you to believe he is being wasted

He is a great player and I would never dispute his work-rate, but I dont believe he can let his own glory go for the sake of the team

United built their team around Ronaldo ,Rooney was sacrificed out of postion . Lampard needs two defensive midfield players to allow his foreward runs . So Chelsea and England accomodate him do they not . Not even going to mention Defoe hes just the flavour of the month at the mo .Unlike Lampard Stevie is a truely great player an will adapt to any position hes given .Thats the point im making England are not utilising him to the full ,not exploiting his full ability. Can you imagine the opposition manager s relief that Gerrard pushed wide left .

Defoe is on one of his hot streaks, it will soon peeter out into one of his regular four games without a goal/suffers a minor injury spell and the media will be back to calling him inconsistent.
What I would personally like to see is Gerrard and Barry in centre Mid with Barry taking the Alonso holding type role and then Lampard playing 'in the hole' just behind Rooney. Have Ashley Young wide left and Wright-Phillips/whoever wide right and you are laughing... hopefully! That way you can play Gerrard and Lampard in positions where they are happiest.

Quote:

Carra
..Unlike Lampard Stevie is a truely great player an will adapt to any position hes given .Thats the point im making England are not utilising him to the full ,not exploiting his full ability. Can you imagine the opposition manager s relief that Gerrard pushed wide left .

Carra-That is EXXXATCCCLY(SORRY) what most folk do think.

Just give Stevie a free role!

Well all I will say is that Capello must see something in Lampard that he doesnt in Gerrard

Coinsidentally, just like every other manager we have had

Yeah he sees a player who is undoubtedly talented but is positionally inflexible and cant play anywhere other than centre mid. Co-incidentally just like every manager who has had contact with Lampard at West Ham, Chelsea and with England.

Stevies playing wide left due to Joe Coles injury. What happens when hes fully fit?This is the ridiculous position . Lampard is a fantastic attacking midfield player but name me a game were he single handedly grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck . He has other players behind him at Chelsea to control games . Stevie can do both he prooves it week in week out for Liverpool. GMRR two things about the players you named above .None are English and none as good as Steven Gerrard.

Tell you what, he's doing something right. Yes he pushed Stevie out left but look what happened. He knows how to get the best out of players. England haven't played this well for years. The only 2 let downs for me were Hesky which is a shame as I really like him. I know he helps others and his work rate is good but he should have taken his chances last night. The other unfortunately is Glen Johnson, Going forward not a problem it's like having another attacking midfielder but defensively he made too many mistakes for my liking. I think he needs to spend a bit more time on this part of his game as he looks like he could be some player. Asley Cole was a bit awol as well but I think that's more to do with Stevie being out there. Nice to see Becks come on didn't really get much chance but still hit some nice passes. Would have been nice to see a trademark freekick. Anyway just my thoughts. I'm sure some will agree and some won't but that's what it's all about.

Hello Oz ,on the face of it i look the numpty for having a pop at Capello . Tis hard to disagree with the points you have made . From my point of view England will be judged when they come up against Spain or Brasil . They are proberbly the two best international teams at present . Will we be able to dominate the midfield then with Stevie wide left?Will the full backs be able to bomb foreward then in support ?Ihope they do but i have my doubts . We played Spain not that long ago and they gave us the run around . To beat these teams we need to utilise Gerrard to the full .Cant see him doing that wide left.

Quote:

carra
Stevies playing wide left due to Joe Coles injury. What happens when hes fully fit?This is the ridiculous position . Lampard is a fantastic attacking midfield player but name me a game were he single handedly grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck . He has other players behind him at Chelsea to control games . Stevie can do both he prooves it week in week out for Liverpool. GMRR two things about the players you named above .None are English and none as good as Steven Gerrard.

Carra i have just blown a gascit,you quote," Lampard is a fantastic attacking midfield player but name me a game were he single handedly grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck . He has other players behind him at Chelsea to control games".Grrr you are unbelievable at times.Carra you show yourself up again i think you`re the numpty.

Let's not forget a major factor here and that is Croatia were appalling. England deserve credit for forcing them back and applying pressure but it is no co-incidence that was largely due to S W-P and Johnson down the right. Steve G. is a fish out of water down the left and it is only because Croatia were a shambles that let him have an easy game, any organised side would know England are exposed down the left with Steve G. and Cole on that side

"Carra i have just blown a gascit,you quote," Lampard is a fantastic attacking midfield player but name me a game were he single handedly grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck . He has other players behind him at Chelsea to control games".Grrr you are unbelievable at times.Carra you show yourself up again i think you`re the numpty."

If you're going to berate people then at least have the decency to give your reasoning behind it. You claim Carra is wrong then answer his challenge or point out where he is wrong. Oh, by the way you don't blow GASCITS you blow GASKETS.


CheeryCherry,
You mention SWP down the right, which game were you watching?
Correct me if I'm wrong but SWP didn't play.

So how come gerrard played just behind torres and ahead of alosnso and masch for you lot last season then?

He isn't this dominating box to box central midfielder you're painting him out to be. He isn't an Essien a Robson or a Keane. He can do that job but he is'nt world class doing it.

He is world class as a purely attacking midfielder though. He can play that defensive side if needs be. But his club manager and his international manager clearly feel he's better suited to not having to do the donkey work and just hurt teams. If he needs to come in from the left or right to do this then so be it.

If you're going to berate people then at least have the decency to give your reasoning behind it. You claim Carra is wrong then answer his challenge or point out where he is wrong. Oh, by the way you don't blow GASCITS you blow GASKETS.


I dont even want to waste your time and my time in me listing the many games that Frank has one single handedly for Chelsea.

Carefree weve had this debate before over Lampard/Gerrard and its pointless going their again.Ifully respect your opinion of Lampard but to me Stevies the complete player at whatever position his manager deploys him . Iwas no way having a cheap shot at Lampard he is a fantastic attacking midfield player . I am highlighting in my opinion a wasted opputunity with the use of Stevie wide left . I know fully well i appear the numpty after Englands eight wins in qualifying but look at the bigger picture . We will come up against Spain/Brasil thats when Gerrards ability to dominate will be crucial .Opperating wide left will make our oponents day . As for him playing behind Torres ,it worked a treat with Masch and Alonso playing deep . Stevie still mucks in its a free role that he adapted to brilliantly . This season we will wait and see ,he may well revert to a more central role .Depending on the players around him . To say he will never be a Robson /Keane is wrong .Hes that and so much more .

A team isn't about one man it's about every man.

As a Burnley fan I can tell you having one star man doesn't seem to win you anything for seasons we've been looking to one player to change the match among them are Andy Gray, Robbie Blake and Ade Akinbiyi. Last season when we were promoted our whole team were the stars. That is what I think it takes generally and it is what it will take for England to win the World Cup (although on some occasions in knockout competitions it can be down to a bit of luck so teams can fluke it).

I can't remember the 1990 World Cup as I was only a few years old but I think this England team has a better chance than any of the other England teams that have gone to the World Cup finals that I've seen. The reason Fabio Capello has taken the circus away and the World Cup is about winning the World Cup rather than a chance for your girlfriend/wife to get in the paper.


Will we win it? I don't know as in the knockout stages one mistake can knock you out, but I certainly think we have the team and manager to win it.

---

LAWS OUT
LAWS OUT
LAWS OUT
LAWS OUT
LAWS OUT


If only the Premier League were as competitive as this.

It was not ment to be a debate but you made it one i`m not bothered about what Gerrard does for you guys i was just responding about what you said about Lampard which i find totally untrue,you said"name me a game were he single handily grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck . He has other players behind him at Chelsea to control games".

And you still haven't

GMRR two things about the players you named above .None are English and none as good as Steven Gerrard.
___________________

You truley believe Gerrard is better than Ronaldo, Kaka, Messi, Xavi and Iniesta?

Quote:

Oz
And you still haven't

GMRR all them players are great ,many having their attributes but none have Stevies all round ability. He is the modern complete footballer.

GMRR all them players are great ,many having their attributes but none have Stevies all round ability. He is the modern complete footballer.
____________________________

Based on what? Xavi does everything Gerrard does in the centre only better, as does Iniesta

Irespect your opinion gmrr ,we will just have to agree to disagree . By the way have any of the above played in virtually every position on the park?

BTDD.........Please don't put Robson in the same sentence as Gerrard, he just isn't worthy of it, I thought Robson was one of the most over-rated players ever. Good player but not as good as the press made out.

Keane was a world class player in his position but didn't have much versatility, and so cannot be compared to Stevie who is one of the most versatile players I've seen at Anfield. You want a top class full back for a special game, Stevies your man. You want a top class right sided midfielder, Stevies your man. The same applies to his role just behind Torres, but..............as an all round midfielder and football player he is world class.

Lampard, is another one who in general plays only one position. This means it's Stevie who gets moved around here ther and everywhere. The sooner he gives up International football the better, imo of course.

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly

Gerrard is only in the England team because Joe Cole got injured otherwise he would still be a bit part player on and off the bench.

Gerrard can play in all those positions yes, but not very well

At the start of this topic did you not state that Gerrard is wasted out on the left?

So if he is world class all round, why are you suggesting he should be moved into the centre?

Face it Gerrard does a job out of position, as could anyone who was any good, but his best role is in the centre and he cant move Lampard...Im not sure how you can argue this but im sure you will

My point GMRR is hes to good for his own good . He played well wide left but from their will not have as much opportunity to control a game .To say hes not that good in those positions .Well GMRR if i didnt know you better i think you was fishing mate

"..Gerrard does a job out of position,as would anyone who was any good... But he cant move Lampard..." Uh huh

I can assure you I am not fishing

As I have said in other topics I have grown up with Liverpool fans and have taken and given the banter as and when needed

My question is as to why you believe that Gerrard is englands answer to a world cup

he cant move Lampard, never has and even though I hate the cockney scumbag, Gerrard never will

something has to say to you all that if Gerrard was this "all-rounder" that you claim he is, then surely the first position he would claim would be his most natural?

Face it, for both club and country....

Messi, commands a strikers/free role

Xavi, Commands a CM role

Iniesta, Commands a CM role

Ronaldo, Commands a forwards role

Kaka, Commands a forwards role

Gerrard.....????????

The differance Ram is all those other clubs have far bigger budgets than Liverpool .They can go out and buy usually the best available player for whatever position . The reason Lampards in the central mid position over Stevie is because Stevie can play other positions ,Lampard cant . Every manager up to now has wanted both in the starting line up.

...yes I know that carra but what Im asking you is why isnt Gerrard commanding his best position? the one you all claim we will win a world cup if he plays there?

IMO, and feel free to critisize as Im sure you all will, Gerrard isnt really any different to the likes of Fletcher, Essien, Diarra(Real Madrid), Toure(barca) etc

I think he works his a** off all game and provides that much needed inspiration with his work rate and the occassional world class pass

...but I would hardly class him as flamboyant, when the likes of messi, Ronaldo and Kaka run at players you expect the crowd to think "s**t here we go" because a goal is anticipated

Gerrard is more of a provider than an instigator, to play him in positions where he can "play well" is all good, but if hes this world class "all rounder" then why isnt he commanding his own natural position in the biggest test of any players career?

GMRR is shall beg to differ on your opinion of Steven Gerrards ability. Ihave been watching LFC for 40 years .Been blessed with some wonderful truely great players in that time . Steven Gerrard is right up there with the best of them . I can assure you when Stevie gains possession of the ball everyone expects something to happen . He can beat a man on either side,has pace to burn ,is stong as a ox ,will tackle a rhino,has the heart of a lion .Also can find a killer pass .The whole point of this thread is that England are missing a trick in not deploying him in the center of midfield . Iknow Lampard is very good as an attacking midfielder but i feel we will discover how one dimentional he is when we come up against Spain ,Brasil and the likes next summer .By then it will be to late.

Surely the reason Steve G cant "command his best position" is nothing to do with ability but yet again the problem is that he and Lampard are so similar in style. You would have them both driving forward and because England lack a quality defensive midfielder it would leave the centre backs exposed. Successive England managers have known both players are too good to leave out so because Steve G has the ability to be flexible and do a job elsewhere then he is 'sacrificed'. If the roles were reversed and Lampard possessed the ability to play out wide then I am sure successive England managers would of readily had Steve G in his favoured central midfield role as Lampard was used wide right/left.

Maybe, but maybe it is because Gerrard is a provider and not greedy enough

Lampard shoots from distance on regular occassions and is a far more prolific goalscorer than Gerrard. Gerrard is a far better player...but I believe that Gerrards work rate is the reason he is played out of position

Im not saying Gerrard isnt world class, he is as great a player as any but I dont believe he commands too much of a fearsome opponent role as the likes of Kaka, Ronald or messi

He isnt englands playmaker because of his own lack of selfishness, Lampard is far more capable of scoring "that" goal if needed, thats why he doesnt get played where he should be playing

GMRR so you agree Stevies a world class player.As for Lampard since when has he been a play maker?Agree he is selfish in that he wont/cant play in any other role than what he does for Chelsea . Stevie cam most definately excell as a playmaker .This role is to provide the ball for your strikers .Also to dictate the flow/pace of the game .

Carra

When did I say Gerrard wasnt?

Gerrard is a world class player, but I dont believe he is in any way the kind of player who can influence a team by playing out of position

If he is as useful as you say he is in CM then why is Lampard considered more of a threat than Gerrard in that role?

Lampard gets the nod in the centre because all managers up till now want both of them in the same side .Stevies pushed around the park to accomodate him as he is a far more all round player .

So effectively, Gerrard has a free role for england then?

Certainly not ,tis Lampard who has the free role to bomb forward like he does at Chelsea . Stevie has played anchor .Left ,Right midfield and right back .Could Lampard do the same to allow Gerrard a free central midfield role??

Quote:

Carra
Lampard gets the nod in the centre because all managers up till now want both of them in the same side .Stevies pushed around the park to accomodate him as he is a far more all round player .

Spot on!

No of course not and that is why it has to be one or the other

Gerrard does not play well out of position, his position is Centre Attacking Midfield end of story

Yet Lampard gets the nod ahead of him with the likes of barry behind him

why?

Can Lamps Cross a ball like Gerrard?-imo NO!

Can Lamps play wide all match,cut inside threateningly like Gerrard & be effeective?-imo NO!

Can Lamps play Full Back & do A sterling Job For England in that position?-imo NO!

How many srikes at/on goal did Lamps have in the Last World Finals?..about 25 without a goal i think!?

Gerrard 3 strikes...3 goals!

NOW COME ON!

GMRR its all about opinions you obviously believe Lampard to be better than Stevie .I strongly disagree but respect your opinion . Let me put it this way forgetting Lampards a bit older ,if they both were on the market who do you think would draw the most intrest from the top continental clubs?

You couldnt be more wrong

I have the upmost respect for Gerrard, he is a far better player than lampard

Lampard thrives on the donkey work done by the likes of Essien and Ballack in order to acheive what he has

Lampard is given the roles he does best due to better players around him

Why is it though, that Gerrard gets shunted out? It isnt because people dont think he can not do the job there, it is because Lampard has proven time after time that he does not need to influence a game in order to get that goal

Yeah he had a shocking effort at 06 WC, but at Chelsea he does it best, no matter how much you wanna talk it up

Gerrard is the most looked up to at Liverpool, everyone puts gerrard first at Liverpool, even Torres, that the problem, he is know as an influencer who is no.1 at the club yet Lamprad has so many class players around him

I guess the problem is that Liverpool dont have enough real talent to show gerrard up

What we dont have is enough money to compete with Chelsea in assembling a world class in depth squad.

...and that is why you will never know If Gerrard, put where Lampard is for england, will win the country anything

World class player definetly, there are better players than him, but he has credentials that certain others lack, but because he is the MAN at your club and like you said, you dont have the finance to bring in a player of similar quality, Gerrard will always be the inspirer of your team

If he doesnt play well, Liverpool dont play, its an old adit that I know you dont accept easily, but it is something that sometimes it all boiles down to

Lampard gets away with playing shite (FA CUP FINAL?) but still manages to command all the acolades, he is jammy but he has the backup to be so,its a son of a @#$%& but what can you do?

So GMRR by that you dont rate highly Alonso and Mascherano from last season .When playing in front of these two and behind Torres Stevie was unstoppable . Unfortunately injuries in the team curtailed him in that position on many occassion last season .England could have him in a similar role behind Rooney.Your best players should surely be in a position were they will see most of the ball .Lampard wont be moved now unless injured .

We have no chance of winning the world cup. Our players are just not good enough and that includes gerrard and lampard and rooney.

The best of a genaration maybe so...but still not good enough.

I didnt say I dont rate them

...but they arent individuals, Gerrard and Torres are, when last season did (without Gerrard and Torres) Mascherano or Alonso save you meanigfully?

Hard to answer that question GMRR as neither score many goals but do stop the opposition and provide a platform for the likes of Torres ans Stevie . As for England not being good enough ,agree we may not have as many world class players as Spain /Brasil but tornaments are won with luck. Not always the best team wins . Injuries ,momentum ,fate play a hand .Greece winning for example .

Very true carra

France have been humiliated in the last 2/3 tournaments they have played in and look at their talent

Evra, Ribery, Malouda, Anelka, Henry etc

all players far better than those that play for england, but what they lack is team unity, thats what capello has instilled into the current england crop

A discipline that was always required and one that you can see with us losing no games in qualifiers and going through with 2 games to spare, a chance to give some fringe players an opportunity to show themselves off as the back up to the first team

Not the biggest of England followers Ram tbh . Club first for me but know for a fact its hugely important for Gerrard . So with my red tinted glasses will always want the best for him in an England shirt . Hense the thread . Capellos a top coach ,really think England have a chance .

I agree totally carra

Id rather see united win the champions league than england win the euros